out of life's school of war:

[Dilsad]

Hi Nistiman,

To touch on what you said about holding them to higher standards:
Well they should be held to highers standard, specially since we are trying to be different from our occupiers. So I say that we should not change that and be able to criticize the different political parties, If we can't then it means that there is no more freedom, and that party has become corrupt. That is the best test for democracy...Do I have the freedom of speech?

So that goes to Bexwedan, we need to be able to criticize without doing name calling, and to the others, let's try to criticize the parties in the south, contructive criticisme of course, because they will need it, sepcially in these times when they seem to be entering the main-stream Iraqi political process.

Dilsad.

[Nistiman]

Hi Dilshad,

You're right that we need to watch our 'behind' in s. kurdistan... What sort of precautions do you think the leadership can take in order to better prepare themselves for a potential turn-around in American policy?

Or, what could they do that they haven't done that would help?

[Dilsad]

Hi Nistiman,

well, you put my back to the wall,...so I guess I need now to go ahead and come up with something

First: Keep the peshmerga forces, DO NOT LET GO OF THEM, at the end of the day, they'll be the only thing that would scare the occupiers (Iraqis or Americans).
2nd: Launch a PR campaign to set Kurdistan as a state within federal iraq, by inviting dignitaries, UN, amreican congresswoman/man, senators, european union etc...
i.e: establish consulate or embassies abroad, and invite embassies to kurdistan.

3rd: push on the constitutional process so that Kurdistan is a a state within Iraq.

4th: Hold real democratic election to the Kurdish parlement and the presidency. We need to show that Kurdistan is not a fiethdom, Imagine how powerfull it would be to elect someone else than Barzani!
No-one could then say that the election were a sham...

5th: Remind Talabani not to forget his roots by playing the Iraqi national enthem...

6th: do not let go of Kirkuk (hey Kirkuk is like KKK )

I'll try to come up with new ones....what do you htink of these ones so far?

Dilsad...

[Emmunah]

I agree with everything you said Dilsad and I will add one more even though everyone will certainly yell at me. The Kurds have to fight for the establishment of a federal state of Iraqi Kurdistan and make it work out very well, without the Kurds from other areas rising up, or calling for the whole of Kurdistan. The reason is quite simple....you risk the whole thing by asking for the whole piece of the pie at once. It breaks my heart this is true, and I sure want more and better...but if the whole world sees this as threatening the stability, rather than making things more secure, they will not support it and all will be lost (the Peshmerga do not have air power and Turkey has one of the top 10 armies in the world).

I want there to be a place where Kurds from all areas can move and live, where they can go to university and live freely as Kurds. This is a brief moment in time, and if reasonable and "do able" plans are enacted now, the deal will hold, but not without the support of neighboring Kurds and diaspora Kurds.

Look at Sistani and the South of Iraq...for the most part they know they have the majority, and so they are waiting this out. Sistani knows that time is on their side. No need to make any move now...no need to destroy cities or run amok (except for the Al Sadr crowd that he can reign in and out as he please for special effects). He can get the ports rebuilt, the schools rebuilt and take all that the US will give and he knows that when they eventually leave, they still have the majority.

I wish the Kurds had a unifying leader that could keep everyone from saying a peep until Southern Kurdistan is a de facto nation....but that's not the Kurdish way....but we still have to give it a try.

The other thing is that the Kurds in the US should make sure they show support for the military. We need better leaders for that, and better organizing skills. We need to do a good demostration...I wonder how that can be arranged?

[Diri]

Dilshad, Nishtîman and Emunnah... Wow you amaze me...

What is wrong with the way things are going now? I know you are gonna say "we just want to be sure everything goes okey"... Well - As for you comment about "electing" another person as President rather than Barzanî -that is just SILLY! Democracy ELECTED him not the parties - THIS IS DEMOCRACY:

People vote for a party of their free choice - the parlamentarians elect a President... Geeee - how UN-democratic of them...

Surly you are just ignorant if you think that this election of Barzanî was a bad choice - nobody deserves it better than him - he is the son of Mellah Mustefa Barzanî one of the symbols of Kurdish nationalism and he has SINCE the age of 14 fought along side his father for Kurdish rights and a national state! Do not come and say "being the son of Mellah Mustefa - doesn't give him the right to be president" thats not the point either - the point is that he is a capable person, an experienced politician and a very wise man!

OF COURSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN WONDERFUL IF A WOMAN WAS ELECTED AS PRESIDENT! BUT HEY - THAT CAN WAIT UNTILL LATER - WE NEED BARZANÎ - A MAN WHO TALKS/LOOKS/THINKS NATIONALISM ALL THE WAY!


And as for APO - he should as you say Dilshad - be cut of the leadership - a new person should be ELECTED as the party's leader and they should follow POLITICAL roads to achive peace and a FEDERAL structure for Turkey... In the long run that is the only way they will achive a peacfull solution... But hey - keep the gêrîla - they may come in handy...

And furthermore - no leader is perfect - but you can't keep judging them by what happened in 1994 or Apo for what he did in 1999... We must look at what happens in these very hours...

Do you se something wrong NOW - then scream - but don't go and talkabout what happened 10 years ago! that won't lead anywhere... it is for us to point out their wrongs and for them to learn their wrongs.. we must let them MOVE on when they have realized their mistakes... and if they keep doing the SAME mistake - then SHOUT!

[Diri]

Oh - and by the way - Barzanî and Mam Jelal are doing just fine in their conspiracy in building an independent Kurdistan... They ARE getting their "Federal Republic of Iraq"... that is more than expected... Kurdistan WILL be a state of it's own... what do you think the politicians are doing down there? Sleeping?

[Dilsad]

Well well well,

Thanks for your response Diri...I had a sense that you were Pro-Barzani bu no to this extend, but now you've said it planly (you may have already said it in other postings, but remember I am new and wouln't know).
Now I understand why you were so anti-APO...

But Waow!!! what a response, talk about lashing out the same way than Berxwedan did...Hey Everyone, you know what button to push to get Diri ANGRY!!!
This remind me to some wise comments one person made in this same posting ...mhm who was it...don't remember

Hey - xxx - Whats up man???

You sound like a blown up baloon as in arrogant... Maybe you should be a bit more friendly in your comments???

We have a friendly and good atmosphere at this forum - wouldn't wanna change that for Kurds fighting eachother over what party is right and what is not...

Hey I jsut remembered who it was, that was you Diri!

Now more seriously,
you are telling me that the results of the elections were fair, again these are the same elections where Barzani's Eshiret gets mhm about 50%and where Talabani's Eshiret gets mhm about 50% TOO!!!
ANd yes, the smaller other parties gets about mhm...a few %

Talk about the kurdish vote being split in half!!!!

Now, don't tell me not to look tens years back, I mean come one, where should we draw the line:
Should it be 10 years? 5years? 2years? 1year? or should it be yesterday?
Hey lets have a poll ? what do you all think?
Becasue if we shouldn't look 10years back, then Saddam hussein is great!
He didn't really do anything against the kurds in the past 10 years has he, Imean we had our autonomus Kurdistan and we were trading with him...

Hey may be that's why Talabani doesn't want him to have the death penalty? What do you think?

"As a reference to everyone, I am against the death penalty"


Check my posting on "kurdish folk story", the story of the donkey, the chicken, the lamb and the wolf...well let's not be the donkey here...

With that said, I do think that it is a good thing to have a single person at the head of Kurdistan (took a civil war and 14 years though), I believe as you do that having a kurdish symbol such as Barzani is a good thing as a unifying factor. We need to make sure we don't fall into the trap of our middle eastern country (i.e: Syria, Egypt etc..) where the father leads to the son etc...
And this should be considered at the begining not 50years from today.

And I believe that Barzani and Talabani are doing some good and important work, they just need to speed it up!
Having Talabani as the first (selected) President of Iraq is a great thing, but he needs to use his positions wisely, and believe me I do understand how difficult it may be to not seem too seperatist and at the same type inserting the kurdish right in Iraq.

Now you may say, mhm, what is Dilsad talking about, I mean he just said he belives that Talabani and Barzani are doing good work...
See the difference between what I am saying and what you are saying is that I am trying to be nuanced and to criticize ANY of the patriarch....ooops sorry elected leaders...


And I do hope that we will not wake up from our dream like Sivan did in his song "min Xewnik dibu"

"Gava siyar bum ji xew, ke ne rasti ci derew,
Ji wer dikim pir hevi, ve xewne bibin seri"

So let's hope that the politicians are not sleeping...

[Diri]

Dilshad - don't take things personall - and don't even think that I am angry - as a matter of fact how can you know anything about me? Except from what I write that is... and from what I write you will find that I go by the rule: Don't judge for what happened WAY back but what they do TODAY"... so if you don't understand what I said - which was

Do you se something wrong NOW - then scream - but don't go and talking about what happened 10 years ago! That won't lead anywhere... it is for us to point out their wrongs and for them to learn their wrongs.. we must let them MOVE on when they have realized their mistakes... and if they keep doing the SAME mistake - then SHOUT!

If they learn from their mistakes - then you have no right to keep picking ub the same broken bottle and throw it at them - If you dislike some one particular (which I don't - no not even APO) then keep it to yourself... All I have said about the different persons are well argumented for...

And just agree and accept that YOU were wrong - the President HAS been elected - if you were blinded by my "anger" (I call it passion) then i suppose you better read it once more

What has gone wrong so far is that Northern Kurdistan is STILL not on track to become a federal part - and I stress "IT IS STILL NOT ON TRACK" - meaning they aren't even trying to put it on the road to - even further from achiving that...

Hope you don't take posts personall - the forums are open for all members and no need to take things said as personall attacks...

Nor is it right of you to judge us by what we wrote a week ago - that is one of the things some people don't understand - humans are in constant CHANGE - the evolve... so don't expect a person to feel the same about a matter each and every time you ask... We are more NUANCED than that...

[Dilsad]

Hi Diri,

you crak me up (make me laugh) ....and I crack myself up too

I say don't take it personaly, then you say don't take it personnaly, and you say and then I say...

Listen bro, I like to respond to your postings because you seem to know a lot....and it is fun to argue, becasue you know a lot...it's nothing personal....so don't worry I won't take it personnaly too

DiLsaD

PS: what in my posting made you think I was taking it personnaly?

[Diri]

I think maybe this part did the job -

Hey Everyone, you know what button to push to get Diri ANGRY!!!

It seemed like a little bit--- hmmm.... strange to say unless you felt offended...

[Dilsad]

Hi there,

don't worry my friend, I wasn't offended at all,...if you havn't noticed I am a bit of a sarcastic ...
You would know if I was offended...I would do like our elder kurdish folks and would start insulting everyone in kurdsih and mixinganimal names and body parts...if you see what I mean

DilsAD

[Diri]

You are very cute - you know that??? Where in Kurdistan did you say you were from? Probably the South of Northern Kurdistan - along Urfa- Cizîre, Culemêrg line... Where exactly???

[Dilsad]

From that region where each time turks would hear, they'd get scared...
Diyare bekir (Amed) and Mardin...lttle village between those great cities.

[Emmunah]

Oh no Dilsad...don't think Diri is angry...he's always like that

Seriously, so is my dear Medya...

It must be in the genetic code. The anger is there one minute, and gone the next, but the only Kurd I know that is very, very calm is Hajir and sometimes I go over to his blog just to hear something soothing

[Vladimir]

Now diri sounds like a teddy bear. And the discussion is lost.