Kurdish music group KAMKARS IRANIAN??

[cheryl]

<<if you support war then u support ur own peoples misfortune>>

WRONG!

do you think anyone gives a damn that kurds are already dying in rojhelat? think again.

do you think that anyone is going to hand over kurdistan to its rightful owners and "grant" independence, peace and freedom to kurds? think again.

do you think that freedom is easy and cheap? think again.

all of the photos and news of the serhildan in rojhelat serve as proof that freedom is neither free nor easy, nor is anyone going to come to the rescue of kurds, unless it is kurds.

it is time for kurds to take what rightfully belongs to them as human beings with their own dignity. it will no doubt mean a fight at the beginning and it will no doubt be a struggle to maintain independence at first, but that is the price of freedom. the price of peace is a well-equipped, well-trained army to deter predators.

you claim to love peace so much, but you lie. you are not willing to pay the price to have it.

at this point, kurds have nothing to lose because even their lives are, at this moment, being taken. does it require another halabja, another holocaust before reality sinks in?

if you are so afraid for your own life, please, move to teheran.

i don't have you wrong. i know exactly what i am dealing with here and all your little protestations of "racism" are typical of the liberal who does not have the moral integrity or intellectual honesty to deal with evil in the only way it can be properly dealt with. . . with fire.

[Diri]

Well said Cheryl... And every post you send makes me more and more convinced that you KNOW what you are talking about... You are very right about the mentality of these "liberals" - shying away from a destiny that the Kurds are on a DEFINITE road to meet one day is NOT gonna help Kurds - we MUST FIGHT! EVEN A MOUSE FIGHTS WHEN IT IS CORNERED - DON'T YOU HAVE ANY HONOUR??? AND YOU ARE NOT ASHAMED TO CALL YOURSELF "KURDI" - Such waste of a GOOD and DECENT name!

[cheryl]

Well said Cheryl... And every post you send makes me more and more convinced that you KNOW what you are talking about... You are very right about the mentality of these "liberals" - shying away from a destiny that the Kurds are on a DEFINITE road to meet one day is NOT gonna help Kurds - we MUST FIGHT! EVEN A MOUSE FIGHTS WHEN IT IS CORNERED - DON'T YOU HAVE ANY HONOUR??? AND YOU ARE NOT ASHAMED TO CALL YOURSELF "KURDI" - Such waste of a GOOD and DECENT name!

thank you, Diri.

i can't help it. look at the example of the saddam-supporters/anti-war protestors. they love peace so much that they would have been overjoyed to see saddam remain in power so that more kurds could have the opportunity to be bulldozed under in places like hilla.

so when it comes to "peace, peace, peace, peace, peace," please, talk to the hand, not to the face.

[heval]

i dont respect racism, of anykind any where by anyone.

Honestly, if what you interpreted my last post as "racist", then I am obviously speaking to a brick wall. I have, in no way shape or form, even mentioned Persians in my post.

Indeed, I cannot change your mind if that is your stone-written belief but you should not twist my words in an attempt to make a point. If you believe in something so strongly, make a point without doing that.

[Kurdi]

these are kurds, NOT iranians.

Cheryl, I am an Iranian and damn proud of it, you are a stupid kurd and I know you are from Turkey. God damn Attaturk and his damn aparathid system of government. that bastard got through you people in turkey, they have erased your identity, they have erased your history. Cheryl and Vladimir, Kurds (in iran) are Iranian, and kurds elsewere are of Iranic people. like it or not, I know you people have Identity crises, damn ataturk got through your brains, and brainwashed you into thinking that you are not iranian. Shame, Shame, damn him and the Turkish racist government.

In Iran, there are no ethnic racism (inspite of that we very well know racism exists in all races and ethnics and persians and kurds are no exception). In iran there has never been ethnic on ethnic hate crime, the governments have been oppressive of every body, kurds, persians, doesnt make us apart. hasnt make me apart from my iran.
you kurds who are from turkey dont understand, because you have identity crises or are just seriously bad educated on your own history.

READ HISTORY, I agree that iraqi, turkish, syrian governments have picked on kurds on racial manners, but in iran its only political. dont believe me, research it yourselves.

hhe, "NOT IRANIAN". get real, KURDS ARE IRANIANS. and kurds else were are IRANIC.

I showed your comments to my Uncle, who is an anthropologists graduate from a british university and now lives with me and my family here in Canada, he read your words and he was disgusted, he told me: "either these (guys) are not kurds or they are just kids who are poorly educated and lost (with their identities)"

I totally agree with him, vladimir you are a kid I saw your picture from another thread, unless i was looking at the wrong guy. YOu are humble (i was too when i was that young), you are angry (very understandible, sometimes im angry as how the kurds are treated, nevertheless i am also angry for other people suffering as well), you are naive (i was too when i was that young, its normal). Education is key, inform yourself about REAL kurdish history and Identity. racism is no answer, if your giong to say that typical things some idiot propagandists say "persians have oppressed us...", you are wrong, the goverments are ethnicly mixed, there are azeris, kurds, persians, even the supreme leader is an azeri, the defence minister is an ethnic arab. there is no such thing about persian oppression against kurds, but it is very well true that there is government oppression against kurds and other ethnic minorities and even on persians. This goes out to all of you.
dyaoko, you seem to be the most reasonable one here though, hopefully you are not a chauvinist like diri, cheryl, who have identity crises. where in iran (I know you are from iran from how well youre aware) are you from?

PEACE.

oh by the way, Can any of you define the term Chauvinism for me?

[Vladimir]

Why Kurds aren't Iranian/Persian. An article especially made for the person called "Kurdi"

The Kurdish people are an Indo-European and non-Arab population that inhabits the transnational region known as Kurdistan, a plateau and mountain area in Southwest Asia including parts of Iraq, Turkey, and Iran and smaller sections of Syria and Armenia. They speak Kurdish, an Indo European language of a similar lineage to that of Persian. They are widely thought to be descended of the Medes. Xenophon the ancient Greek historian recorded the Kurds in the Anabasis as "Khardukhi" a fierce and protective mountain dwelling peoples who attacked his armies in 400 BC. Although many Kurds live in modern-day Middle-Eastern countries, it is worthy to note that they differ from Arabs, Assyrians, Persians, Turks and others, both culturally and ethnically. [1]

Example:
Kurdish men


Iranian men


Kurdish women


Iranian women:


Historians, Kurds and Kurdistan

The Ottoman historians of the incorporation of most of Kurdistan into the Ottoman Empire in the early 16th century; Sharaf Khan, the ruler of Bitlis who wrote a detailed history of all Kurdistan's ruling families towards the end of that century; Evliya Çelebi, the Turkish traveller who spent years in various parts of Kurdistan in the 17th century — all of them used the name Kurd in practically the same way and applied it to the same population. So did Ottoman and Persian administrators, down to the early 1930's, when mentioning Kurds became unacceptable in Turkey. Their Kurds consisted of those tribesmen of eastern Asia Minor and the Zagros, settled as well as nomadic, who were not Turkish, Arabic or Persian-speaking.[3] They included speakers of Kurdish proper as well as Zaza (in the Northwest) or Gurani (in the Southeast, with more isolated pockets throughout present Iraqi Kurdistan), Sunni Muslims as well as Shi`is and the adherents of the various heterodox sects in the region. There was only some ambiguity about the Lur and Bakhtiari, living to the Southeast of the Kurds proper, whom some authors called Kurds and others considered as separate groups. (The same ambiguity still persists in the self-definition of at least some of the Lur today.) It is important to note also whom they appeared not to include among the Kurds: the numerous non-tribal peasants and townsmen living in the same area, who included Muslims as well as Christians, and many of whom spoke Kurdish (or Gurani or Zaza) dialects as their first language.

Kurdish language

In each of the countries in which the Kurds live, moreover, the various Kurdish dialects have during the present century undergone a considerable influence of the official language, most clearly in vocabulary but also to some extent in syntax. Closely related dialects spoken on either side of an inter-state boundary have thus begun drifting apart. [Persian, Arabic, Turkish]...[2]

Persian discrimination

The main problem with Persian culture is its lack of tolerance for diversity. Kurds, Bahai, and Jews, have been suffering greatly because they are different and do not accept the way Persians treat them.[4]

An Iranian view

Another neighbor who had close dealings with the Kurds and wrote a useful study of the early phases of the Kurdish movement was the Iranian general Hassan Arfa, who had personally taken part in the suppression of Kurdish tribal uprisings in the 1920s.[6] Arfa was a loyal servant of the Peacock throne, but as an Azerbaijani he was sensitive to the tensions between ethnic identity and citizenship. He rejected Azerbaijani as well as Kurdish separatism but understood the sentiments behind it and wrote sympathetically on the Kurds at the time that the first modern armed Kurdish nationalist uprising was in progress in Iraq.

“Although the Kurds have always lived under two – or, as at present, three Powers – by their speech, customs and costume, as well as by their own consciousness of being Kurds and thus different from [their non-Kurdish neighbors], they have always formed an entity and for the same reasons they consider themselves now entitled to be counted as a nation even if in the past this conception was alien to them.” [5]

“The Turks say: ‘you are Turks not Kurds; there are no Kurds in Turkey.’ (….) They do not allow that there is any Kurdish question in Turkey.
The Iranians accept the Kurds as such but they say that, as the Kurds belong to a group of the Iranian race they form the Kurdish branch of that race and are therefore part of Iran, and in any case Iran is a multiracial empire based on history, tradition and a common fealty to the Shahinshah. So for Iranians too, no Kurdish question exists.
The Iraqis say: ‘you are Kurds we are Arabs, but together we are Iraqis. Iraq is a part of the Arab nation, but as you are not Arabs we agree to granting you autonomy on our terms, on condition that you continue to be sort of Iraq, without the right or the power of secession.’”

Celebrated Turkish traveller Evliya Çelebi on Kurdistan and the origins of the Kurds

In official Ottoman parlance, Kurdistan was the name of a province (eyalet), an administrative unit. For Evliya, the term refers primarily to the Kurds as an ethnic category, irrespective of political and administrative boundaries.

"It is a vast territory: from its northern extreme in Erzurum it stretches by Van, Hakkari, Cizre, `Amadiya, Mosul, Shahrazur, Harir and Ardalan to Baghdad, Darna, Dartang and even as far as Basra: seventy day's journeys of rocky Kurdistan. If the six thousand Kurdish tribes and clans in these high mountains would not constitute a firm barrier between Arab Iraq (sic!) and the Ottomans, it would be an easy matter for the Persians to invade Asia Minor (diyar-i Rum). (...) Kurdistan is not as wide as it is long. From Harir and Ardalan on the Persian frontier in the east to Damascus and Aleppo [in the west], its width varies from twenty-five to fifteen day's journeys. In these vast territories live five hundred thousand musket-bearing Shafi`i Muslims. And there are 776 fortresses, all of them intact."

The author whom Evliya quotes most frequently on early Kurdish history is an Armenian historian (or class of historians) whom he names Mighdisî, and who so far cannot be identified.[12] The legends that Evliya attributes to this Mighdisî relate early Kurdish history to two other complexes of legends: the tales of the Prophets (qisas al-anbiyâ), and the Iranian tradition of the Shahname. Evliya's Mighdisî attributes a venerable age to the Kurdish language, explaining it as (one of) the earliest language(s) to be spoken after the Flood:

"According to the chronicler Mighdisî, the first town to be built after Noah's Flood was the town of Judi, followed by the fortresses of Sinjar and Mifariqin.[13] The town of Judi was ruled by Melik Kürdim of the Prophet Noah's community, a man who lived no less than 600 years and who travelled the length and width of Kurdistan. Coming to Mifariqin he liked its climate and settled there, begetting many children and descendants. He invented a language of his own, independent of Hebrew. It is neither Hebrew nor Arabic, Farsi, Dari or Pahlavi; they still call it the language of Kürdim. So the Kurdish language, which was invented in Mifariqin and is now used throughout Kurdistan, owes its name to Melik Kürdim of the community of the Prophet Noah. Because Kurdistan is an endless stony stretch of mountains, there are no less than twelve varieties of Kurdish, differing from one another in pronunciation and vocabulary, so that they often have to use interpreters to understand one another's words."[14]

Notes:

[1] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
[2] We also find Kurdish tribes mentioned as far away from this region as western Anatolia, eastern and north-eastern Iran, but all of these tribes retained memories of their ancestors migrating there from the said region.
[3] Martin van Bruinessen- Kurdish Nationalism and Competing Ethnic Loyalties
[4]http://www.geocities.com/~ghobad/
[5][6] Source the BOOK Arfa, The Kurds, p. 155 in article:" The Kurdish Movement Seen by the Kurds and by their Neighbors Wadie Jwaideh Memorial Lecture in Arabic and Islamic Studies,
Department of Near Eastern Languages and Cultures & Middle Eastern and Islamic Studies Program,
Indiana University, Bloomington, 19 November 2004. By Martin van Bruinessen
[7] Martin van Bruinessen, “Kurdistan in the 16th and 17th centuries, as reflected in Evliya Çelebi’s Seyahatname”, The Journal of Kurdish Studies 3 (2000), 1-11.

Off course I don't know much about history, I am a dumb, ignorant, young, poor uneducated Kid. That’s why my paper about the Kurds was labelled “excellent” by the “Netherlands Institute of International Relations, situated in The Hague.” Tell this to your daddy..

Ok.. thanks

[Diri]

hopefully you are not a chauvinist like diri, cheryl, who have identity crises. where in iran (I know you are from iran from how well youre aware) are you from?

PEACE.

oh by the way, Can any of you define the term Chauvinism for me?

How stupid - do you use a word you don't understand - and this is your wisedom and intelligence?

Let me just tell you that you can eat your words... There is no such thing as Kurdish chauvanism... Why? Because there are some hinders for us to be chauvanist - like we could NEED a country to BE CHAUVANIST! How can we - a people who are oppressed by our neighbours and who have been made to accept our fate and destiny as slaves of Arabs, Turks and Persians do anything to them? We can't impose anything Kurdish one these nations... So ergo we are not chauvanist - and also for the record - we don't HATE them... I don't hate any of them - that is a very stupid and ignorant thing to do - I don't know every single Arab, Turk or Persian - what I DO know is that Kurdistan is at the mercy of wolves and vultures... I hate the REGIMES in TURKEY, IRAN,IRAQ and SYRIA - NOT THE PEOPLE...

I'll explain one thing - I never said that Kurds aren't Iranic... We are - but the right term is "Arian" - the word Iran has derived from the word Arian... So yes we are Arian... And so are Persians, Afghans etc...

But if you could get your nose out of the clouds I could ask you something - Why did Iran do NOTHING in 1920 when the Ottoman Empire was gonna be split? If they believe we are Iranian - why the hell didn't they want us to be part of Iran? Could you ask your uncle this? Maybe he could answer why we were rejected even by our Persian "brothers"...

And this forum is meant for Kurdistan... If you are Iranian - go to the Iran forum... Ergo you must THINK of yourself as a Kurd for coming here - or maybe you wanted to make others think like you do? Convert them to IRANIANISM! LOL

[Diri]

Welatêmîr - that IS an excellent article... You should realy work on this further and develope your skills... GREAT!

[Kurdi]

Why Kurds aren't Iranian/Persian. An article especially made for the person called "Kurdi"

kurds are Iranian, not persian, but IRANIAN. get that thru your ignorant head. your brain is diseased by pan-turkish propaganda, and I hope you grow out of that.

[Kurdi]

oh Vladimir, who do you think I am, please site your source, because now I know you are a liar, You found this on Wikipedia, and if your going to believe everything here, but let me site your disinformation and lies.

The Kurdish people are an Indo-European and non-Arab population that inhabits the transnational region known as Kurdistan, a plateau and mountain area in Southwest Asia including parts of Iraq, Turkey, and Iran and smaller sections of Syria and Armenia. They speak Kurdish, an Indo European language of a similar lineage to that of Persian. They are widely thought to be descended of the Medes. Xenophon the ancient Greek historian recorded the Kurds in the Anabasis as "Khardukhi" a fierce and protective mountain dwelling peoples who attacked his armies in 400 BC. Although many Kurds live in modern-day Middle-Eastern countries, it is worthy to note that they differ from Arabs, Assyrians, Persians, Turks and others, both culturally and ethnically. [1]

i've read this before and if anyone else want to read it, go to wikipedia and search for "kurdish people". Valdimir, I don't know if you forgot to put the sitation or your just a big lying scum trying to trick people, but it doesn't work. The word "Khardukhi" is hellenized word for kurds, we don't really know the exact word, but it does come from medo/persian word for mountain, kur - kuh . it is well known that persians used names to describe people, like samartians (I think) name was "thief" in old persian, though i might be wrong but one tribe had that name, and it is known persians name people after geography or deeds, as for kurds, well them mountain . anyway, I had no problem with that u said (stole) but i just wanted to elobrate on it because its intreseting dont u think?

Example:
Kurdish men


Iranian men


Kurdish women


Iranian women:

again you are trying to fool us, kurds obviously have their own cultural differences with persians, but why do you keep saying iranian??? you still don't know, you think iranian is equivalent to persian, YOU ARE WRONG. Baluchis are iranian also, IRANIC (outside iran) elsewhere, i can show you picture of their people having wore different though quite related dresses and shirts. EEvery region has its own culture distiction. even in persian districts, you will see they have different dresses than that picture you showed from a mosque in tehran im guessing.

Historians, Kurds and Kurdistan

The Ottoman historians of the incorporation of most of Kurdistan into the Ottoman Empire in the early 16th century; Sharaf Khan, the ruler of Bitlis who wrote a detailed history of all Kurdistan's ruling families towards the end of that century; Evliya Çelebi, the Turkish traveller who spent years in various parts of Kurdistan in the 17th century — all of them used the name Kurd in practically the same way and applied it to the same population. So did Ottoman and Persian administrators, down to the early 1930's, when mentioning Kurds became unacceptable in Turkey. Their Kurds consisted of those tribesmen of eastern Asia Minor and the Zagros, settled as well as nomadic, who were not Turkish, Arabic or Persian-speaking.[3] They included speakers of Kurdish proper as well as Zaza (in the Northwest) or Gurani (in the Southeast, with more isolated pockets throughout present Iraqi Kurdistan), Sunni Muslims as well as Shi`is and the adherents of the various heterodox sects in the region. There was only some ambiguity about the Lur and Bakhtiari, living to the Southeast of the Kurds proper, whom some authors called Kurds and others considered as separate groups. (The same ambiguity still persists in the self-definition of at least some of the Lur today.) It is important to note also whom they appeared not to include among the Kurds: the numerous non-tribal peasants and townsmen living in the same area, who included Muslims as well as Christians, and many of whom spoke Kurdish (or Gurani or Zaza) dialects as their first language.

Kurdish language

In each of the countries in which the Kurds live, moreover, the various Kurdish dialects have during the present century undergone a considerable influence of the official language, most clearly in vocabulary but also to some extent in syntax. Closely related dialects spoken on either side of an inter-state boundary have thus begun drifting apart. [Persian, Arabic, Turkish]...[2]

yes i already know that. your point being? thats why different kurdish areas have their own provinces. I speak (well im no good at this right now since i've lived in the west and tried to learn english and spanish(suck at spanish too) instead) southern kurdish, which is called "kurdi" very related to sorani. I think it is called sorani. my father/mother is fluent in kurdi.

Persian discrimination

The main problem with Persian culture is its lack of tolerance for diversity. Kurds, Bahai, and Jews, have been suffering greatly because they are different and do not accept the way Persians treat them.[4]

okay I know you wrote this yourself (?), "Persian discrimination", didnt i just educate you on your idiotic belief that persians have "lack of tolerance for diversity". are you crazy? you think persians are turks? you have never been in iran and never met any persian so how do you come up with that lie.
Kurds, bahai, Jews, have never suffered from PERSIANS, no, they have suffered from the authorities who are islamists w/e and fools. Kurds have suffered for their political views as much as persians or any other, Ayatollah Khamanei is an azeri and how do you come up with saying that persians are discriminating kurds. Iran is a dictatorship, not a free democracy like turkey (which discrminated kurds anyway now thats racist crime).

An Iranian view

Another neighbor who had close dealings with the Kurds and wrote a useful study of the early phases of the Kurdish movement was the Iranian general Hassan Arfa, who had personally taken part in the suppression of Kurdish tribal uprisings in the 1920s.[6] Arfa was a loyal servant of the Peacock throne, but as an Azerbaijani he was sensitive to the tensions between ethnic identity and citizenship. He rejected Azerbaijani as well as Kurdish separatism but understood the sentiments behind it and wrote sympathetically on the Kurds at the time that the first modern armed Kurdish nationalist uprising was in progress in Iraq.

There are thousands of stories in iran rejecting ethnic sentiments which propagandist idiot kurds from turkey are persuing to create. Iran 1979-1982, it was kurds themselves mostly suppressing kurdish idiot revolt. By some few idiot kurds who were low educated and sided with that bastard saddam, siding with the devil himself, shame. and thats what they got. This is a fact, please go research it vladimir.

“Although the Kurds have always lived under two – or, as at present, three Powers – by their speech, customs and costume, as well as by their own consciousness of being Kurds and thus different from [their non-Kurdish neighbors], they have always formed an entity and for the same reasons they consider themselves now entitled to be counted as a nation even if in the past this conception was alien to them.” [5]

the sunni kurds got what they deserved for siding with the evil ottoman empire, ,why? because iran was shia though with many sonni population, there were always iranian attempts to united with kurds, but kurds out of their religious beliefs sided with turks. another fact, research if you dont believe me.

“The Turks say: ‘you are Turks not Kurds; there are no Kurds in Turkey.’

in iran, everybody can proudly say they are kurd, persian, azeri (tork), baluch. In turkey you have to identify urself as a turk to get successful in life.

(….) They do not allow that there is any Kurdish question in Turkey.
The Iranians accept the Kurds as such but they say that, as the Kurds belong to a group of the Iranian race they form the Kurdish branch of that race and are therefore part of Iran,

thats true and not without any proof. It is a fact that kurds are a branch of iranians, same with persians, baluch, etc...

and in any case Iran is a multiracial empire based on history, tradition and a common fealty to the Shahinshah. So for Iranians too, no Kurdish question exists.

I dont understand your pan-turkic version of history, iran is no longer an empire, wtf. "multiracial empire", there is no such thing as race, as far as im concered we are all the same race, even the turks, arabs, WE ARE ALL MIXED. there is no such thing as RACE. iran is a multiethnic country and that makes iran a beautiful and diverse nation.

The Iraqis say: ‘you are Kurds we are Arabs, but together we are Iraqis. Iraq is a part of the Arab nation, but as you are not Arabs we agree to granting you autonomy on our terms, on condition that you continue to be sort of Iraq, without the right or the power of secession.’”

that is every country policy. iraq under saddam thou was pan-arab, therefore attacking kurds, but kurds always moved for separation, therefore it made it all easy for saddam to persue his anti iranian propaganda. he wrote a book called "3 things god shouldn't have created: Persians, Jews, and flys". he hated persians, and he hated anything else iranian. Iraq right now is a different story.

Celebrated Turkish traveller Evliya Çelebi on Kurdistan and the origins of the Kurds

In official Ottoman parlance, Kurdistan was the name of a province (eyalet), an administrative unit. For Evliya, the term refers primarily to the Kurds as an ethnic category, irrespective of political and administrative boundaries.

"It is a vast territory: from its northern extreme in Erzurum it stretches by Van, Hakkari, Cizre, `Amadiya, Mosul, Shahrazur, Harir and Ardalan to Baghdad, Darna, Dartang and even as far as Basra: seventy day's journeys of rocky Kurdistan. If the six thousand Kurdish tribes and clans in these high mountains would not constitute a firm barrier between Arab Iraq (sic!) and the Ottomans, it would be an easy matter for the Persians to invade Asia Minor (diyar-i Rum). (...) Kurdistan is not as wide as it is long. From Harir and Ardalan on the Persian frontier in the east to Damascus and Aleppo [in the west], its width varies from twenty-five to fifteen day's journeys. In these vast territories live five hundred thousand musket-bearing Shafi`i Muslims. And there are 776 fortresses, all of them intact."

why are trying to talk about history, i know my own history better than u, i thought you were trying to (idiotically) prove that kurds are not iranian (IRANIC RATHER)

The author whom Evliya quotes most frequently on early Kurdish history is an Armenian historian (or class of historians) whom he names Mighdisî, and who so far cannot be identified.[12] The legends that Evliya attributes to this Mighdisî relate early Kurdish history to two other complexes of legends: the tales of the Prophets (qisas al-anbiyâ), and the Iranian tradition of the Shahname. Evliya's Mighdisî attributes a venerable age to the Kurdish language, explaining it as (one of) the earliest language(s) to be spoken after the Flood:

"According to the chronicler Mighdisî, the first town to be built after Noah's Flood was the town of Judi, followed by the fortresses of Sinjar and Mifariqin.[13] The town of Judi was ruled by Melik Kürdim of the Prophet Noah's community, a man who lived no less than 600 years and who travelled the length and width of Kurdistan. Coming to Mifariqin he liked its climate and settled there, begetting many children and descendants. He invented a language of his own, independent of Hebrew. It is neither Hebrew nor Arabic, Farsi, Dari or Pahlavi; they still call it the language of Kürdim. So the Kurdish language, which was invented in Mifariqin and is now used throughout Kurdistan, owes its name to Melik Kürdim of the community of the Prophet Noah. Because Kurdistan is an endless stony stretch of mountains, there are no less than twelve varieties of Kurdish, differing from one another in pronunciation and vocabulary, so that they often have to use interpreters to understand one another's words."[14]

you still have not proved anything, you just mention some of the history regarding the land as we know today as "Kurdistan", which is settled by kurds. Kurdish language is related to persian, also related to baluchi, pashtu, we all have related languages. ya kurdistan is an endless story, all of the lands have a history. whats your point?
now you claim that kurds are of Noah's descent (as thou it seems like it), your funny.

Notes:

[1] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
[2] We also find Kurdish tribes mentioned as far away from this region as western Anatolia, eastern and north-eastern Iran, but all of these tribes retained memories of their ancestors migrating there from the said region.
[3] Martin van Bruinessen- Kurdish Nationalism and Competing Ethnic Loyalties
[4]http://www.geocities.com/~ghobad/
[5][6] Source the BOOK Arfa, The Kurds, p. 155 in article:" The Kurdish Movement Seen by the Kurds and by their Neighbors Wadie Jwaideh Memorial Lecture in Arabic and Islamic Studies,
Department of Near Eastern Languages and Cultures & Middle Eastern and Islamic Studies Program,
Indiana University, Bloomington, 19 November 2004. By Martin van Bruinessen
[7] Martin van Bruinessen, “Kurdistan in the 16th and 17th centuries, as reflected in Evliya Çelebi’s Seyahatname”, The Journal of Kurdish Studies 3 (2000), 1-11.

Off course I don't know much about history, I am a dumb, ignorant, young, poor uneducated Kid. That’s why my paper about the Kurds was labelled “excellent” by the “Netherlands Institute of International Relations, situated in The Hague.” Tell this to your daddy..

Ok.. thanks

well iguess you have your sources here, ,my mistake. i dont feel like going back and change my comments tho. too lazy.
BUT, you still have not proved anything that makes kurds un-iranic. You still have problems with the word iranian, you think iranian is persian. but infact, iranians are not all persian.
please i want to see a source of that "netherlands institute of international relations", because your article is not even that well written and mostly ripped off from other peoples work. If what you say is true about your award, how stupid are the judges. am i supposed to believe you now? no i dont! any body can claim things like that.

I STILL DONT KNOW YOUR PURPOSE OF SUBMITTING THIS, it doesn't prove that kurds are not iranic. you just said that out of the blue with no reasonable proof. actually your sources had nothign to do with kurds-being-not-iranian. haha.

oh and sorry for any spelling and grammar error, i was rushing through this.

[Kurdi]

hopefully you are not a chauvinist like diri, cheryl, who have identity crises. where in iran (I know you are from iran from how well youre aware) are you from?

PEACE.

oh by the way, Can any of you define the term Chauvinism for me?

How stupid - do you use a word you don't understand - and this is your wisedom and intelligence?

how stupid are you? i put that question for you to see it foryourself, I already know it. its called sarcasim. and i put this at the end of the sentece to esure you of that, but you seem to erased it from ur quote to take a shot at me.

Let me just tell you that you can eat your words... There is no such thing as Kurdish chauvanism...

yes there is budy, you are one. there is chuavnisim in every ethnicisy around the globe and kurds are no excepttion.

Why? Because there are some hinders for us to be chauvanist - like we could NEED a country to BE CHAUVANIST!

chauvanism is not that you can have a country, chauvinism results to things such as people coming out and say "kurds are not iranian (iranic)", "iranians are persians". "kurds are the most noble poeple on earth", "kurds are the only ones suffering", "persians oppress kurds". these are not the things you people say, im just giving you examples.

How can we - a people who are oppressed by our neighbours and who have been made to accept our fate and destiny as slaves of Arabs, Turks and Persians do anything to them?

can you give me a proof that persians have slaved us kurds. there hasnt been a persian dynasty in iran from samanids until the pahlavis. your funny. in iran kurds are no slaves, and this is coming from a person who has lived there and has family and relatives there.

We can't impose anything Kurdish one these nations... So ergo we are not chauvanist

oohs, so to be a chauvinist, u have to imposte ur kurdishness on people?, i suggest u to go look up the word chuavinist in a dictionary. kurds have influenced all of iranians, and believe me like less that 90% of our vocabulary is persian related, and same with persians.

- and also for the record - we don't HATE them... I don't hate any of them -

We surley dont, but you do, from the way you talk about them. funny guy.

that is a very stupid and ignorant thing to do

my point exactly.

- I don't know every single Arab, Turk or Persian - what I DO know is that Kurdistan is at the mercy of wolves and vultures... I hate the REGIMES in TURKEY, IRAN,IRAQ and SYRIA - NOT THE PEOPLE...

i hate the regimes too, but from your pervious posts you keep saying that persians oppress kurds, which is historically wrong and stupid and it still applies today. but turks and arabs have suppressed kurds due to they racism and pan-turk and pan-arab agenda. if you dont know the meaning of these two words, LOOK THEM UP.

I'll explain one thing - I never said that Kurds aren't Iranic...

you did say that, and same with cheryl and others here. IRANIC AND IRANIAN ARE SAME. iranian is for people living in iran, they made the word iranic so not to make any confusion.

We are - but the right term is "Arian" - the word Iran has derived from the word Arian... So yes we are Arian... And so are Persians, Afghans etc...

we WERE ARIAN. there is no such thing as arian now, but to distinquish ourselves from others, we are called iranic. its the modern term for it budy. if you going to call us arians, then called germans as our brothers, which is not true and we are far apart in ethinicity.
indo-european----indo-iranian(aryan)----iranian----kurds
indo-european----germanic----germans

But if you could get your nose out of the clouds I could ask you something - Why did Iran do NOTHING in 1920 when the Ottoman Empire was gonna be split?

because iran was too weak from years of imperialism from russia and britain. iran lost alot of land from russia and britain. READ HISTORY!!!!!!

If they believe we are Iranian - why the hell didn't they want us to be part of Iran? Could you ask your uncle this? Maybe he could answer why we were rejected even by our Persian "brothers"...

yes, again iran was too weak, but iran managed to keep its kurdish areas tho, the turkish government had plans to invade the area but backed off due to russian and british presents in iran.

And this forum is meant for Kurdistan... If you are Iranian - go to the Iran forum... Ergo you must THINK of yourself as a Kurd for coming here - or maybe you wanted to make others think like you do? Convert them to IRANIANISM! LOL

im a kurd from kurdistan and im iranian and i would go to any forum i would like to.
i suggest you research your own roots, i suggest you study some anthropoligy. so in that way you move out of ur ignorant pan-turkick infected mentality.

[Vladimir]

It's hard to do discussion with someone who instantly is attacking you on a personal way. I can conclude that you don't know who I am, you don't know how to have a discussion and don't know how to put proof into your arguments without a source.

Off course everyone can shout LIES LIES..
A lot of the material I copied was about the Kurds and their etnicity/history. Including a professor of an university. I think he knows the Kurds better then me, because he is expertised in Islam, Indonesia, Middle-East, etc.. (And also Kurds)

But I don't spent more time with you, because it's useless.. good luck with the so-called Iranian people.. Kurds are just as Iranian, as Dutch people are German. I wonder what Dutch people would say .. if Germans came with this theory..that their culture, habits, language is German[ic]. Then they would say it's true, but we STILL don't live in Germany and we still are another kind of people.

You also think Ahwazi Arabs are Iranian or Azeri??

[Diri]

It's hard to do discussion with someone who instantly is attacking you on a personal way. I can conclude that you don't know who I am, you don't know how to have a discussion and don't know how to put proof into your arguments without a source.

Off course everyone can shout LIES LIES..
A lot of the material I copied was about the Kurds and their etnicity/history. Including a professor of an university. I think he knows the Kurds better then me, because he is expertised in Islam, Indonesia, Middle-East, etc.. (And also Kurds)

But I don't spent more time with you, because it's useless.. good luck with the so-called Iranian people.. Kurds are just as Iranian, as Dutch people are German. I wonder what Dutch people would say .. if Germans came with this theory..that their culture, habits, language is German[ic]. Then they would say it's true, but we STILL don't live in Germany and we still are another kind of people.

You also think Ahwazi Arabs are Iranian or Azeri??

Welatêmîr - you are right - but I was just thinking about paying him a visite and show him what a KURD thinks of this...

He would NEVER EVER call Kurds part of "Iran"...

MODERATORS - PLEASE, I ASK FOR JUSTICE - This person has no real point in staying here - he is just here to shout bad words at us - attacking us personally and making groundless accusations...

[heval]

Seems like Mr. Kurdi is doing more to unite "Iranians" than he is doing to unite Kurds.

[Delal]

I am only replying to this thread as there was a call for moderator intervention.

I have read all comments made several times, and I see no need to censure anyone. I don't think that any party to this debate will compromise on the issue. Both sides are guilty of calling the other variations of stupid and/or a liar, so if someone is upset of "personal attacks" you must be willing to accept the same critisim that you give out to others.

I would advise all to tone down their language as to personal attacks (stupid, liar, etc), stick to the topic at hand and please give back-up information for a statement you have made if someone says that it is false. I think that Vladimir has done an admirable job in backing up with sources as to what his statements have been, as well as being very even-handed with his replies.

Please do not let the situation escalate.