Recommendations for Solution from DTP Co-director Turk

[BlueEyedCat]

This is because the Turkish government, you praise, tried to assimilate all Kurds and try to call them mountain Turks.

This mountain Turk stuff has never been Turkish State's argument. It was just a phenomenon amongst some nationalist people. I live in this country but the first time i've heard this shit was when i was reading a Kurdish nationalist web site. It seems that this is a good argument for them. Turkish state officially recognized Kurds in 1991 when our prime minister mentioned Kurds and about their problems in his speech. There's no denial about Kurdish presence in Turkey since 1991. Interesting point is that although there's no denial about Kurds in Turkey by state, Kurdish nationalists are still propagandizing this mountain Turk issue though this was not even state's argument before 1991.

And it's indeed true the PKK and DTP fight for Kurdish rights in Turkey. I wonder why they didn't succeed yet.

Neither PKK nor DTP is fighting for Kurdish rights. They are fighting for interests of happy feudal leaders of PKK and DTP.

Anyway, the rest of your points are useless.

Just saying "Your points are useless" doesn't help much. I put my arguments here and no one of you couldn't say more than "Hey, this is ridiculos, it's useless bla bla bla". Well, if it's useless just prove the opposite. Here're my arguments;

1- Turkey invests to Eastern parts of Turkey more than Western parts. Here you can look at this link.
http://www.muhasebat.gov.tr/mbulten/T7-63.htm
For example, state has collected 291 million YTL of tax from Diyarbakir but has spent more than four times of 1.35 Billion YTL .
State collected only 23 million YTL from Hakkari but spent more than ten times (332 million YTL)
This is same for all cities where Kurds live.

2- Just state one single rational reason for a Kurd that's living in Turkey to seperate from Turkey and unite with this Mesud Barzani dictatorship. What are the benefits for them, i really wonder.

You don't know how South-Kurdistan is going to evolve itself. Btw, there are Kurds from North-Kurdistan studying in Kurdish universities in Hewler/Slemani.

South Kurdistan will not progress under the feudal dictatorship of Mesud Barzani. All money is flowing into some feudal leaderships' pocket in Kurdistan.

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/0 ... 081791.php
http://northerniraq.info/blog/?p=30

I wonder why you are so happy that Turkey is trying to destroy Kurdish language and culture?

Turkey contributes to Kurdish culture much much more than your free Kurdistan ! Nearly all important Kurdish intellectuals, writers, singers are from Turkey. Rest of all Kurds listen Aynur Dogan, Metin Kahraman, İbrahim Tatlıses and read Mehmed Uzun (this is the guy who wrote Kurdish Language Anthology) but you still claim that Turkey opresses Kurds. That's bullshit !

One thing more if Turks are so bad, why the hell even Kurds from your free south Kurdistan and Iran's Kurdistan migrate to west Turkey and lives illegally here. I've met lots of Kurds from your beloved Kurdistan in Istanbul who is trying to live in Istanbul, so why do you want to live in Turkey if Turkey is soooo bad place for Kurds ?

[Vladimir]

http://rastibini.blogspot.com/ Post your replies/ideas here. I don't have time for it. He will respond.

[Vladimir]

http://www.kurdmedia.com/articles.asp?id=12758

Kurdish identity is denied in Turkish constitution

[Tirigan]

2- Just state one single rational reason for a Kurd that's living in Turkey to seperate from Turkey and unite with this Mesud Barzani dictatorship. What are the benefits for them, i really wonder.

Kurds in north Kurdistan want their own country because they want to be recognised as different people with their own ancestors, own language own culture, own way of life.
We want have own Kurdish president, we want Kurdish parliament in North-Kurdistan. We want talk Kurdish in parliament, in government and in every official places. We want recognition!.
We don’t want live in the country which is called Turkye. Of course if you change name of your country in Kurdistan and Turks will speak Kurdish and will practise Kurdish culture we will embrace you as brothers. But if your culture will be subordinate to our!

We’re not Turks we don’t want speak Turkish and practise you culture. We have got our own rich culture.

Why as a Kurd living in northern parts of Kurdistan, in my own country, in the country of my ancestors, I must speak Turkish? it’s not even beautiful language!

[Tirigan]

One thing more if Turks are so bad, why the hell even Kurds from your free south Kurdistan and Iran's Kurdistan migrate to west Turkey and lives illegally here. I've met lots of Kurds from your beloved Kurdistan in Istanbul who is trying to live in Istanbul, so why do you want to live in Turkey if Turkey is soooo bad place for Kurds ?

Maybe because you bombed and burned down thousands and thousands of our villages?

Give us our money/gold back and re-build our houses in Kurdistan!

I don’t like your attitude here toward us! Stop talking with us like we are idiots.

[missIndependent]

One thing more if Turks are so bad, why the hell even Kurds from your free south Kurdistan and Iran's Kurdistan migrate to west Turkey and lives illegally here. I've met lots of Kurds from your beloved Kurdistan in Istanbul who is trying to live in Istanbul, so why do you want to live in Turkey if Turkey is soooo bad place for Kurds ?

just trying to educate some turks
the time is so overdue for turks to get educated, inni?

[Vladimir]

Turkey contributes to Kurdish culture much much more than your free Kurdistan ! Nearly all important Kurdish intellectuals, writers, singers are from Turkey. Rest of all Kurds listen Aynur Dogan, Metin Kahraman, İbrahim Tatlıses and read Mehmed Uzun (this is the guy who wrote Kurdish Language Anthology) but you still claim that Turkey opresses Kurds. That's bullshit !

Mehmed Uzun has been charged several times in Turkey due to his activities in the field of Kurdish literature . He was arrested on March 21 of 1976 as managing editor of a Kurdish-Turkish magazine, and was accused of "separatism" and jailed in Ankara's central prison. During his trial in the summer of 1976, he attempted to prove the existence of the Kurds and the Kurdish language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmed_Uzun



And with your rethoric against feudalism you sound like a PKK member...

[BlueEyedCat]

2- Just state one single rational reason for a Kurd that's living in Turkey to seperate from Turkey and unite with this Mesud Barzani dictatorship. What are the benefits for them, i really wonder.

Kurds in north Kurdistan want their own country because they want to be recognised as different people with their own ancestors, own language own culture, own way of life.
We want have own Kurdish president, we want Kurdish parliament in North-Kurdistan. We want talk Kurdish in parliament, in government and in every official places. We want recognition!.
We don’t want live in the country which is called Turkye. Of course if you change name of your country in Kurdistan and Turks will speak Kurdish and will practise Kurdish culture we will embrace you as brothers. But if your culture will be subordinate to our!

We’re not Turks we don’t want speak Turkish and practise you culture. We have got our own rich culture.

Why as a Kurd living in northern parts of Kurdistan, in my own country, in the country of my ancestors, I must speak Turkish? it’s not even beautiful language!

Don't speak for them. You are not a Northern Kurd. So there's no "we".

Speak for yourself and more, if you want to live in Kurdistan and practice your culture, why don't you leave Amsterdam and stop practicing Dutch culture at first ? Before advising people just do it !

[Tirigan]

Don't speak for them. You are not a Northern Kurd. So there's no "we".

Speak for yourself and more, if you want to live in Kurdistan and practice your culture, why don't you leave Amsterdam and stop practicing Dutch culture at first ? Before advising people just do it !

I'm a Northern Kurd! I'm from Wan-Kars region. And I want go back to my fatherland! And it's your people fault that I can't go back! And that's why I don't like TURKssssssss. All my ancestors are buried there. I want to go back to the land of my ancestors. Northern Kurdistan is my land!
(I was born in Russia, so what?). My great grand parents fled to Russian Empire because of TURKSssssss
I don’t want live in Europe. For me it’s like living in exile. And I’m not an outcast. I’m a victim of Turkish racism and unfair world politics.

I'm a victim of Turkish racism and Turkssssss will pay for it...

[zurderer]

You are a victim of your distorded mind. Your ancestors were victims.

[BlueEyedCat]

Don't speak for them. You are not a Northern Kurd. So there's no "we".

Speak for yourself and more, if you want to live in Kurdistan and practice your culture, why don't you leave Amsterdam and stop practicing Dutch culture at first ? Before advising people just do it !

I'm a Northern Kurd! I'm from Wan-Kars region. And I want go back to my fatherland! And it's your people fault that I can't go back! And that's why I don't like TURKssssssss. All my ancestors are buried there. I want to go back to the land of my ancestors. Northern Kurdistan is my land!
(I was born in Russia, so what?). My great grand parents fled to Russian Empire because of TURKSssssss
I don’t want live in Europe. For me it’s like living in exile. And I’m not an outcast. I’m a victim of Turkish racism and unfair world politics.

I'm a victim of Turkish racism and Turkssssss will pay for it...

You're not from Turkey, you're from Armenia. You're free to go back to Armenia. But watch your back while you're in Armenia

http://kurdistan.org/Current-Updates/yezidi.html

[missIndependent]

Don't speak for them. You are not a Northern Kurd. So there's no "we".

Speak for yourself and more, if you want to live in Kurdistan and practice your culture, why don't you leave Amsterdam and stop practicing Dutch culture at first ? Before advising people just do it !

for kurds in politics, there isnt sucha word meaning "I", it's all "we".. doesnt matter northern kurds, southern kurds, eastern kurds or western kurds.. muslim, jewish, christian, yezidi, zoroastrian, etc.. WE ARE ALL KURDISH. those partitions called northern, southern, eastern, western are the gifts given to us from our neighbors, thanx to stupid brain washed racists like you!
but too bad for u, cuz the fact is, we all stand up for eachothers, cuz when it comes to sucha matter, its not just about one person, its about Kurds n Kurdistan!
u betta remember this for the next time!

You're not from Turkey, you're from Armenia. You're free to go back to Armenia. But watch your back while you're in Armenia

http://kurdistan.org/Current-Updates/yezidi.html

again, he is Kurdish n from kurdistan, so dont u dare callin him turkish or armenian n classing Kurdistan, our fatherland, as turkey or armenia!

btw, the link was well written, thanx for just proving his point..

[kurdistani]

This mountain Turk stuff has never been Turkish State's argument. It was just a phenomenon amongst some nationalist people. I live in this country but the first time i've heard this shit was when i was reading a Kurdish nationalist web site. It seems that this is a good argument for them. Turkish state officially recognized Kurds in 1991 when our prime minister mentioned Kurds and about their problems in his speech. There's no denial about Kurdish presence in Turkey since 1991. Interesting point is that although there's no denial about Kurds in Turkey by state, Kurdish nationalists are still propagandizing this mountain Turk issue though this was not even state's argument before 1991.

You are right. the Turkish state cannot deny that there are Kurds living in Turkey anymore... BUT from the 1920s up to the 1970s this mountain Turk argument was very strong. In official circles the word Kurd an Kurdistan was banned... There were even a number of attempts to prove scientifically Kurds were ethnic Turks. However, the PKK issue and the recognisition of th Iraqi Kurds made this policy unrealistic and finally Turkey was forced to accept that there was a people called the Kurds.

I agree there is no point in going on about the mountain turk issue now but it was historically part of the state ideology.
However, the Kurdish identity was only accepted because of the struggle. As much as i dislike PKK. I have to give it to them. They are the reason why Turkey has opened up. (albeit ever so slightly)

Neither PKK nor DTP is fighting for Kurdish rights. They are fighting for interests of happy feudal leaders of PKK and DTP.

This is nonesense. The Turkish state has been the one supporting feudalism in Turkish Kurdistan... The fact is the tribal an fuedal elite were intergrated into the rupublican system. In the 1950s land reform was never expanded to the East becasue the Turkish state relied on fuedal aghas to maintain order in the region. The PKK (which mobilised Marxist ideology) was a reaction against the dominance of fuedalism. In response to the PKKs uprising (which first targeted pro government tribes) the Turkish state set up the village guard system. This re enforced Kurdish fuedalism at a time when agricultural modernisation was weakening fuedalism.

Just saying "Your points are useless" doesn't help much. I put my arguments here and no one of you couldn't say more than "Hey, this is ridiculos, it's useless bla bla bla". Well, if it's useless just prove the opposite. Here're my arguments;

Ok. You are agruing in a civilised way. You deserve to be engaged with.

1- Turkey invests to Eastern parts of Turkey more than Western parts. Here you can look at this link.
http://www.muhasebat.gov.tr/mbulten/T7-63.htm
For example, state has collected 291 million YTL of tax from Diyarbakir but has spent more than four times of 1.35 Billion YTL .
State collected only 23 million YTL from Hakkari but spent more than ten times (332 million YTL)
This is same for all cities where Kurds live.

the Japanese spend a lot of money on Korea... but there was still national oppression... Most of the money spent in the south east goes into the hands of tribal and fuedal elites.

2- Just state one single rational reason for a Kurd that's living in Turkey to seperate from Turkey and unite with this Mesud Barzani dictatorship. What are the benefits for them, i really wonder.

Why is Masud Barzani a fuedal dictatorship? Feudalism implies an economic system based on control of land. However, this is not the case in Iraqi Kurdistan the feudal elite has been liquidated due to land reform. Power is now based on capitalist wealth production. Now this is not to say that Iraqi Kurdistan is a perfect democracy but it is not the fuedal dictatorship your are claim... it is a democratising state...

South Kurdistan will not progress under the feudal dictatorship of Mesud Barzani. All money is flowing into some feudal leaderships' pocket in Kurdistan.
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/0 ... 081791.php
http://northerniraq.info/blog/?p=30

Corruption is an issue in Iraqi Kurdistan that is for sure.. BUT there is is an issue of corruption in Turkey is there not?
And there have been anti government protests in Turkey have there not?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4540535.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4877676.stm

Turkey contributes to Kurdish culture much much more than your free Kurdistan ! Nearly all important Kurdish intellectuals, writers, singers are from Turkey. Rest of all Kurds listen Aynur Dogan, Metin Kahraman, İbrahim Tatlıses and read Mehmed Uzun (this is the guy who wrote Kurdish Language Anthology) but you still claim that Turkey opresses Kurds. That's bullshit !

the Turkish state does not help these people.... there is a difference... Te fact is that there has been liberalisation in the last few years... but historically Turkey has adopted an oppressive line to Kurds to express themselves as Kurds. (Ibo for example never used to sing in Kurdish in public)

One thing more if Turks are so bad, why the hell even Kurds from your free south Kurdistan and Iran's Kurdistan migrate to west Turkey and lives illegally here. I've met lots of Kurds from your beloved Kurdistan in Istanbul who is trying to live in Istanbul, so why do you want to live in Turkey if Turkey is soooo bad place for Kurds ?

There is a difference between Turkish policy in Kurdistan and Turkish policy in Istanbul. Turkey has an uneven development of democracy... No to mention that the economic oppurtunities in Istanbul are much better than in Kurdistan.

[zurderer]

I dont know, why Turkey gives permission people for investing iraqkurdistan. After all, She hate kurds.

[kurdistani]

I dont know, why Turkey gives permission people for investing iraqkurdistan. After all, She hate kurds.

It is the old contradiction between ideology and money!