Roj Bash Kurdistan

how do you see the future of the kurds and kurdish parties in the next iraqi ellection ?

by my idea, they can not get the vote that they got last time.

1- because sunnies will not boycott the ellecttion like last time and kurds can not take their places.

2- Kurdish parties are not united like last time .
islamic union and PCDK are seprated.

3- Kurdish peopel are not as enthousastic as last time to vote.
last time "farhad sengawi" made a very enthousatic advertisement , that made every kurd cry ! and every kurd thought if they vote , kirkuk will come back to kurdistan in a year...
but now advertisements are not as attractive as last time/

and I think this is a bad thing for kurds, because we will be EVEN WEAKER than before.
even last time with all those votes, kurds couldnt take kirkuk back or make iraqis admit "refferuandum for independence in 8 years" is kurd's right ....

the future doenst seem like good, ...specially iraqi centeral governmetn is being more powerfull day by day ...and that means they will soon take control of kurdistan too.

do you think next time we will have a Kurdish president and Kurdish Forgien Minster?

The right for Kerkûk, Xaneqîn, Kifrî, Sincar, Mendelî and other Kurdish cities to join Kurdistan - has been enshrined in the current constitution! So that right, we won BECAUSE we had a large number in the parliament...

NOW - if Kurds aren't in great numbers as last time - we might face a lot of opposition... BUT - the law has been adopted - WITHIN 2007 - there MUST be held a referendum in ALL adhering areas to Kurdistan - on their wish - whether or not they wanna join Kurdistan Region!

I think the YOUTH in Kurdistan are the reason we won't get many votes - they realy disappoint me...

To think that a KURD won't VOTE - is DISGUSTING! He who doesn't vote in this election (doesn't matter WHAT he/she votes) is realy not a patriot... He/she would be a traitor... Because NOT voting is spitting at the many decades, years, months, weeks, days and hours that Kurdish blood has been flowing like rivers...

please dont call a group of peopel traitor ! thats exacly what mojahedine xalq in iran do , or , that is one of the reaons that you always critic PKK.

instead of calling those who dont vote , traitor , we better analyze and see why they dont vote , and what to do so they vote .

I feel that there are a generation of peopel in S,Kurdistan , who are not connected to anything and they are sick of everyything... and they dont feel their vote can do anything for them.

by the way , even if those who are not going to vote, DO VOTE, do you think , we can have presidency and also Foriegn minster and other minsters again while sunnies will not boycott the ellection ?

and about the 2007 , the INTERM law already had something...but it was never done... establishing what is said in the law needs FORCE , and POWER , if you dont have voice in parliament you have loess power.

who is going to do that 2007 Deadline Shias Or Sunnies ?

I will call those I wish traitors... This is my oppinion...

And no - you don't need power or force to do something which is prescribed in the constitution - and no it was not in the interim (TAL) - it is written in the constitution that was adopted last month...


And I don't care if we have a president or foreign minister in Iraq... We won't be part of Iraq much longer... Independence will be a fact in 2007...

thats too optimisitc,

by iraq interm law, the kurdish refugess should had came back and the arabs should had went beck to their south .

but Kurds couldnt make that happen , even though it was in the law ,
why ? Turkey several times warned to attack.

now it has been postponed until 2007, i am sure, in 2007 nothing will happen either.
because at the year 2004-2005 America needed kurds MOST ! [america was so weak to bother kurds] and also in 2004-2005 Kurds had most possible seats in parliaments.

now you tell me in 2007 ,
1- that iraq will be stable with more stronger central government [if you had heared that ayad alawy and others had said about kurds claiming kirkuk...you would say if they ever have power in the future , they would kill all of us],
2- and america wont need kurds that much
3- and Turkey will even be more Radical... they give us kirkuk with all those oil back that peacefully ?

no it is so optimistic, nothing in kurds has changed that we can say , they can do in 2007 what they couldnt do in 2004-2005

if UNITED kurdish government happen , ( slemani and hewler), we MAY have some chances to FIGHT for kirkuk.

I don't think I was clear enough...

thats too optimisitc,

Optimism is all I have... It gives me hope...

by iraq interm law, the kurdish refugess should had came back and the arabs should had went beck to their south .

True...

but Kurds couldnt make that happen , even though it was in the law ,

True

why ?

Because in the context of "Iraqi problems" Kerkuk and Arabification was not on the agenda... They have been more concerned with issues such as security (people are still dying in the South, you know...) and elections, relations with their neighbours (Syria's ill controll of their border - enabling terrorists to enter - and Iran and Turkeys constant butting in on Iraqi buisness...) also the Al-Qaeeda and other terrorist org. have been a problem...

Turkey several times warned to attack

Money talks - bullshit walks...

now it has been postponed until 2007, i am sure, in 2007 nothing will happen either.

See, THAT is the point you didn't understand - the constitution says: De-Arabification of Kerkuk and other areas must be done BEFORE 2007... See? There is a time limit! And Barzanî has made it clear: IF ANY PART OF THE CONSTITUTION IS BREACHED, WE WILL DEMAND JUSTICE (In e.g. declare independence)... So - if things don't go according to the deal - Barzanî has threatened to declare independence... Because "Iraq" is a choice for the Kurds - they aren't forced to... That is Kurdish policy...

because at the year 2004-2005 America needed kurds MOST ! [america was so weak to bother kurds] and also in 2004-2005 Kurds had most possible seats in parliaments.

America still needs Kurdistan... American foreign policy has changed - they have gone from the idea of supporting strong authoritarian regimes, to supporting "democracy"...

now you tell me in 2007 ,
1- that iraq will be stable with more stronger central government [if you had heared that ayad alawy and others had said about kurds claiming kirkuk...you would say if they ever have power in the future , they would kill all of us],
2- and america wont need kurds that much
3- and Turkey will even be more Radical... they give us kirkuk with all those oil back that peacefully ?

Did I say all that? Realy?

no it is so optimistic, nothing in kurds has changed that we can say , they can do in 2007 what they couldnt do in 2004-2005

I don't like pessimism... And you are wrong about the year again... It is WITHIN 2006 - meaning BEFORE 2007 - which means? Yes only one year for De-Arabification to have been completed... There are consequences to every action!

if UNITED kurdish government happen , ( slemani and hewler), we MAY have some chances to FIGHT for kirkuk.

Inshallah... The important thing now is: That they have the same list - they stand together... within 2006 - I am sure they will unite their governments... Things take time! They used 8 years to be enemies - to kill eachother... Don't you think you are being unrealistic when you want them to unite in one month?

diri wrote:

dyaoko wrote:now you tell me in 2007 ,
1- that iraq will be stable with more stronger central government [if you had heared that ayad alawy and others had said about kurds claiming kirkuk...you would say if they ever have power in the future , they would kill all of us],
2- and america wont need kurds that much
3- and Turkey will even be more Radical... they give us kirkuk with all those oil back that peacefully ?

Did I say all that? Realy?

no you didnt say those 3 numbers, those 3 lines are my 3 resoning to what you said.

America still needs Kurdistan... American foreign policy has changed - they have gone from the idea of supporting strong authoritarian regimes, to supporting "democracy"...

america's polcy has always been supporting "demcracy" but I am sorry , the democracy that they mean , is not the same with what we mean.

their democracy doenst mean , independence, doenst mean taking kirkuk back.
their democracy is smethint that Turkey is its model
"Turkey is the model of democracy for middle east" Said Bush infront of Medias.
and the model of democracy thinks Normalization of Kirkuk is "being racist to turkmen and arabs"

Quote:
now it has been postponed until 2007, i am sure, in 2007 nothing will happen either.


See, THAT is the point you didn't understand - the constitution says: De-Arabification of Kerkuk and other areas must be done BEFORE 2007... See? T

like the time of INTERM LAW another reason will be found, to "not do it before 2007 ."

IF ANY PART OF THE CONSTITUTION IS BREACHED, WE WILL DEMAND JUSTICE (In e.g. declare independence).

who is this we ? Talibani or Barzani ?
I thought they already said Independence is just a dream and they love united iraq.

Barzanî has threatened to declare independence

i guess he had already threatend to do that many times before, i remember before Ghazi Yawar become president , Barzani had warned bush , if a kurd dont be President or PM , they will not attend in Iraq anymore...

Words and Acts are two diffrent things.
if barzani could ACT his words, and make indepenence Kurdista, he had done it before ... but he can not do it , They dont have powerfull army to fight with turkey.

and I still think that Kurds will be EVEN weaker in the future iraq [because iraqi government is based on parliament and Sunnis will not boycott they ellection again ...and will not give thier slice of the cake to us],
kurds will be so weak that they can not take Kirkuk back.
unfortuantely there is no good sign that tell us united kurdish government [in slemani and hewler] will be made soon.

they have not even resolved the Cell phone problem, if you go to South Kurdistah , you must buy two diffrent cell phone phones for Hewler and Slemani .

in another hand, Turkey will never let Kurds have that much oil, Turkey is not going to forget it that easily,
please tell me what has made you think , that turkey will be quiet and let us take kirkuk? while in the past it threatend to attack ?


even if Arabs/Americans/ and Turkey WARMLY and KINDLY give Kirkuk to us as a Gift , dont you think there will be a war between massood and jalal over it ?

jaffari has said this in scarsm to a newspaper, he had said , to whom we should give kirkuk , to PUK or KDP ?

the future of the kurds is not bright , let not neglect ourself.

Dyaoko is bringing some very intresting arguments.
Well my brother what i can just tell you is to hope the hope dies at last.

But for the Assyrians i think it cant go worser then it is now.

You think Turkey is gonna jump on us any day now... Don't be afraid... They won't bite... They have their own obligations...

Don't you think you are being unrealistic when you want them to unite in one month?

I dont expect them to be united in a month, I say their making united government is NESSECERY if they want to have a voice.

and if Each month they are postponing this another month , then I have the right to not be optimistic at all for the future .

They won't bite

they wont bite , but they wont let you have kirkuk , and they will do their best to make you as weak as possible in iraq.

and my concernings are not just about turkey, I am talking about the Bad future of the kurds in iraq...in this period that we have been eating sunnie's slice, and we have had Forgien minstery and Presidency and with all that ,we havent been able to reach any of our ambitions.
and now in this upcoming ellection , sunnies wont lend their slice to us anymore. and in the future we will have less power in every aspect.

1-having less minstery and probably not having presidency .
2- pressure of turkey
3- iran will slowly start to be another turkey for kurds, [iran now has Shias in iraq and dont need kurds], I can feel that by watching iran tv, that how they are slowly changing their position against iraqi kurds.
4-America wouldnt be in vitial needs for kurds, as much as it was during this hard period, and america wouldnt even think about making turkey angrey. [even right now they dont dare to mak turkey angrey]

diri wrote:Don't be afraid...
Inshallah... The important thing now is...
[if god wants...]
Optimism is all I have

I don't like pessimism.

in fact it is one of the problem of the kurds, they dont have a plan for future. they live in NOW , and dont know a future.... yeah Inshallah God will make it good ! Dont be afraid...Optimism is all I have

is that what you are going to do for kurdistan ? being hopefull with ishallah and mashallah , that Barzani will will take kirkuk back from the hand of arabs and turks and then happily annouce kurdistan independence and everybody claps for him chantnig "hoora" ?

i didnt know we kurds are that powerfull and that smart .