Kurdistan's Turkomen Shield

[heval]

This news is a couple months old but this article has a nice map of what it is about. Yochanan posted it in one of the comments section on KBU and I thought it was interesting.

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=996


It's like a perfect shield against the Arabs in the South and the Turkomens would be happy too. I don't think it would ever fly though. Even though it sounds like it could be a plan to remove Turkey's nose from Southern Kurdistan's affairs, I don't think anything will make Turkey accepting of any Kurdish independence in fear of losing Northern Kurdistan some day in their future.

[Diri]

HEY! HEVAL - WHERE IS THE MAP???? I MUST SEE THAT MAP- I AM KIND OF SHOCKED! I HOPE THIS IS NOT TRUE::: ARE YOU STUPID?? THEY CAN*T GIVE AWAY KHANEQIN AND MANDELI AND TELL AFAR AND MEKHMUR::: ARE THEY DUMB??? WHERE CAN I FIND THAT MAP...

[Vladimir]

Lol..
THis is better then when you don't have Mosul and Kirkuk..

SIgh

[Diri]

Vladimir - what do you mean? It is obvious that such a STUPID act would give the Turcomen MORE than what they deserve... They mainly live in and around Kerkuk... So why the hell should they get land from Tell Afar to south of Halabje??? this is not logical at ALL! And what about the Kurds living in these areas of KURDISTAN - are they happy about the fact that the KRG is playing with their lives?

[Vladimir]

But Diri.. The TURKOMEN and ARABS already have more then they deserve now.
Heard the news reports about Khanaqin getting "re"arabised??
A lot of Turkmen in Kirkuk/Arabs in Mosul.
That's my point.. this picture would be BETTER then the situation is now in Kurdistan.

Don't you agree?

Anyway this picture is based on fantasy not on reality. It's just an idea.

[ZaniYar]

Yeah Havel, I read an articel like that about 6 months ago. According to that articel that was the deal between KDP, PUK and turkmens just b4 the 2003 Iraq war, later on KDP changed their minds but PUK still believe in the deal.

Jezzz but why so close to Halabja?!!

[Diri]

Hey - Can someone PLEASE tell me where I can see the MAP that is made for this IDEA - I have not yet been able to find the map that is supposedly ATTATCHED to the damn article... Where can I find it? Make a shortcut to it for me please...

VLADIMIR - Hmmm... Yes I agree - there are appareantly many new "forms" of arabization... I even read an article where the KURDISH governor of Kerkuk ressettles a WHOLE VILLAGE of Arabs in the middle of Kurdistan - Kerkuk Province... Are they out of their minds???

GO KDP - they would naturally not accept such a SILLY proposal.. why the **** should Kurdistan be given to the Turkmens??? Dont they have enough TURKIC countries already??? Turkey, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhistan, Kyrgyzistan... HELLO??? AM I THE ONLY ONE REACTING TO THEIR ENVELOPING OF KURDISH LAND???

If they are TURKMENS - THEN LET THEM MOVE TO "TURKMENISTAN"!

[Vladimir]

DON'T you seE THAT MOSUL AND KIRKUK IS IN KURDISH AREA NOW? WHICH AREA ARETHEY NOW?? IRAQISTAN?

[Piling]

I think that Kurds should keep Kirkuk and get rid of Mosul without regret...

[heval]

HEY! HEVAL - WHERE IS THE MAP???? I MUST SEE THAT MAP- I AM KIND OF SHOCKED! I HOPE THIS IS NOT TRUE::: ARE YOU STUPID?? THEY CAN*T GIVE AWAY KHANEQIN AND MANDELI AND TELL AFAR AND MEKHMUR::: ARE THEY DUMB??? WHERE CAN I FIND THAT MAP...

Diri, please calm yourself down. There is no need to be using CAPS lock, we are not blind. We will read your message. You do not need to call anyone stupid.

First of all, just click on the link and click on the map in the article and it will expand. Second, Kurds are not giving away Kirkuk. The plan if I had read it correctly is to share the province. Turkey is a huge roadblock towards Kurdish autonomy. If sharing a province is what we have to do to finally gain our independence, is it that bad of a deal?

[Diri]

HEVAL

Hey sorry - I wasn't calling you stupid... You misinterpreted - I was just shouting out...

hmm ... I know you read them... DAAAA

[Emmunah]

This is not a bad thing....the map is not about land, it's about living together and working together. Do you remember all the terrorists in Tal Afar? Remember all the fighting in Mosul (not that it's all gone, but it's not as much)? Remember all the intercepted messages from the Grey Wolves to Turkey? Remember how the Turkomen were starting to make deals with the Shia and Sunni Arabs? This was the Kurdish counter-offer. Notice the Turkomen Front dissolved?

What does Turkey want (from a purely political and realist point of view, not the yelling and screaming they do)?

1. They want to keep their borders secure, yeah, yeah I know that is a contested point, but I'm talking politics.
2. They do not want the Kurds in "turkey" to revolt.
3. They do not want to enter Southern Kurdistan because if they did, the US, Iran and probably Syria would do that too, this would explode and Turkey would NEVER gain admission to the EU if they did that.
4. They want access to the Southern Kurdistan/Iraqi market that is safe.
5. They want access to oil too.
6. They want to do business in Southern Kurdistan without terror attacks on Turks.

So, they "blessed" this deal, and supported the Turkomen front uniting with the Kurds to create a buffer zone between the Iraqi's and the Kurds, which makes the Turkomen unlikely to join with the Shia and Sunni Arabs in terror attacks, gives one more layer of security for Kirkuk, Mosul and the rest of Southern Kurdistan, and protects their interests there.

It keeps Kirkuk and Mosul in Kurdish control, and it keeps all other minorities happy that they have a place there, and a safer environment to work, and live.

This does not give Turkomen property rights, or land control, it merely recognizes their locations, and draws a line that the Turks and the Turkomen Front will assist in defending as Kurdish land.

How would it be a good idea to fight the Turkomen Front if they allied with the Shia and Sunni Iraqis? Better to work out a deal and have them turning their guns south.

[heval]

HEVAL

Hey sorry - I wasn't calling you stupid... You misinterpreted - I was just shouting out...

hmm ... I know you read them... DAAAA

Emmunah - That is a good analysis. I cannot say I really have a strong opinion on this topic though because I think Kurds need to be very cautious when dealing with TUrks. And I personally oppose any participation with Turkey. However, I cannot help but think of our lack of options.


Diri - Thanks, sorry I misunderstood. I just want to say I respect your opinions and sometimes I agree with you as well. However, everytime someone happens to disagree with you, you tell them that they are brainwashed, that they are negatively influenced, or that they are under turkish or arab propraganda even though you probably do not know these people personally. You should learn to respect others' opinions and if you disagree, it is very healthy to debate about it (and I encourage you because I'm very happy you and others are debating - it shows your strong interest in your culture and people), but take it easy on those subjective statements you make.

[Diri]

Hey I am astonished that NOBODY has mentioned that there is a HUGE lie in the article -

It is stating:

This deal augurs a reshaping of the map of northern Iraq. The Turkomen strip runs transversely from Tel Afar near the Syrian border in the west up to a point south of Kurdish Halabja near the Iranian border to the east. Its population, estimated at between two and three million, centers on the two main towns of Tel Afar and Kuz-Khrumatu.

Is it talking about the population in the area or the TURKMEN population.. Surely there are less than 200 000 Turkmen in Iraq... Even less - But hey, lets be nice to them...

Emmunah - So you support the idea of having and independent Kurdistan with a AUTONOMOUS Turkmen region within it??? Whats that good for?? Then Kurdistan will become another Iraq - made up of different peoples and nations... so one day they'll say - "Hey we want to have our own country" so they will take historical Kurdish lands and make it their own - rightfully...

the Turkoman homeland of Turkmeneli which abuts and often overlaps the Kurdish region and the oil-rich lands of northern Iraq (See attached DEBKAfile Special Map) and promises it will act as a buffer between Kurdistan and other parts of Iraq.

Where do I find the damnd map??? The link in the article doesn't appear - so I can't click it... Where can I find this map? Can either of you see it? Can you make a link to it here on the forum for me? Please...

[Emmunah]

Diri....they could potentially try to ask for a country someday, but really...how are 200,000 Turkoman going to have their own country? It's possible, but really unlikely. I'm sure it will be fine to have them in Parliament (if THAT ever happens!), and to run their own internal councils or municipal type arrangements. They have areas where they already rule, so no one is giving them anything but peace of mind that they will be "in on what goes on" The strip they are talking about is in area, population, but not Turkomen population. The map is on Debka, but that is an online news site. Here is http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=996 The Debka link.