out of life's school of war:

[Nistiman]

What you are about to read is not a joke.

Kongra Gel has formed a new party called the KKK.

In Turkish, it would be pronounced Ka-Ka-Ka, but it is no better in English as it immediately conjures up images of the Klu Klux Klan.

Who in their right mind would name a Kurdish liberation movement
Koma Komelen Kurdistan????
What does Koma Komelen Kurdistan mean exactly?
Group of Kurdistan organizations?

We have reached a new bottom...I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. Perhaps, that was the point.


-----------------


"One ought not to act and speak like people asleep." Heraclitean maxim

"Digressions, objections, delight in mockery, carefree mistrust are signs of health; everything unconditional belongs in pathology." Nietzsche

"The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments." Nietzsche

[Diri]

That name is SICK - and it is directly translated to GROUP OF GROUPS OF KURDISTAN...

KOM=GROUP KOMELA=GROUPS/PARTIES


This should explain the little brain they DO have is inadequate for political struggle... I suggest they go back to the mountains with that name...

[Vladimir]

WTF that's the same name as the KU KUX CLAN??!!?

What's your source.

[Nistiman]

The "order" to change the name to KKK came from Imrali prison and articulated by Abdullah Ocalan...you can read it in Kurdishmedia (in English) at http://www.kurdmedia.com/printarticles.asp?id=2552.

As for whether his directive was followed or not, just look at DozaMe.org
http://www.dozame.org/index.php?page=2
where the guerrilla leader Karayilan is referred to as a 'leading member of the Koma Komelen Kurdistan'.

[Diri]

BUUUUU!!! DOWN WITH HIM!

[cheryl]

But there was also this article, Nistiman:

http://www.kurdmedia.com/news.asp?id=6535

Turkey’s rebel Kurds go back to old name: PKK
04/04/2005 AFP
ISTANBUL, April 4 (AFP) - 17h07 - Turkey’s armed rebel Kurdish movement has decided to revert back to its original name of PKK after two name changes in three years, a pro-Kurdish news agency reported on Monday.

The MHA news agency said a "congress" of 205 members of the organisation, considered terrorist by Turkey and many Western countries, met in "the mountains of Kurdistan" and decided to once again go by its original name of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, whose Kurdish acronym is PKK.

MHA said the name-change would be effective from April 4, the birthday of PKK founder Abdullah Ocalan, now serving a life sentence for treason in a Turkish jail.

"Our congress (has) purged the PKK of its shortcomings and errors," a document quoted by MHA said.

The PKK, founded by Ocalan in 1978, waged an armed campaign against the Ankara government from 1984 to 1999, which claimed some 37,000 lives in souutheastern Turkey.

The group, which describes itself as marxist-leninist, proclaimed a unilateral ceasefire in September 1999 after Ocalan was captured in Nairobi, tried and sentenced to death. The sentence was later commuted to life in jail.

The PKK was dissolved in April 2002 and renamed itself KADEK (Congress for Demoracy and Freedom in Kurdistan) to "pursue the struggle for Kurdish liberation."

In November 2003, KADEK too said it was dissolving itself, taking on the name KONGRA-GEL (Kurdistan People’s Congress) and renouncing separatism.

In June 2004, it announced the end of its unilateral truce. Fighting has resumed since in parts of southeast Turkey, but on a far smaller scale than in the 1990s.

Officials Monday said nine PKK militants and one soldier died in clashes in southeastern Sirnak province over the past five days.

________________________________________

i remember seeing the article about the KKK name when i was in kurdistan and couldn't believe it. later, i saw this other article in which a "congress" (i'm not sure what that means) voted to take up the old name again.

[Nistiman]

Cheryl,

I have no reply ... I would guess that the reversion to PKK was the plan until Ocalan came up with the KKK idea to complement the equally ridiculous idea of a Middle East "confederation". Or, PKK and KKK may be co-existing as two parties.

I suppose I shouldn't get all bent out of shape since if our immediate history is a guide, it should only take a few years or months for Ocalan to come up with yet another brilliant plan to re-shape the middle east - and yet another name for the PKK.

And from what I have witnessed, PKK supporters do not know what "confederation" really means or what PKK is officially called - nor do they particularly care. When the supporters are so indifferent, it is kind of a relief because you know that no one has truly internalized Ocalan's message aside from a few oft-repeated slogans.

Nistiman

[Diri]

Nistiman -

And from what I have witnessed, PKK supporters do not know what "confederation" really means or what PKK is officially called - nor do they particularly care.

That should stand as proof that something must be wrong... Either the party has too complicated plans or the supporters are to un-educated to comprehend the terms and policy of the party - either way SOMETHING is wrong!

I have never really cared for the policy that the PKK/KKK (hahaha - it looks so silly writing it ) has been adcovating - I wasn't around to support their "independence for Kurdistan" slogans... but ONE thing is sure - I haven't heard ONE KKK supporter shout "FREEDOM FOR KURDISTAN" or "WE ARE KURDS - WE WANT OUR HUMAN RIGHTS" - all they manage to shout is "BIJÎ SEROK APO"... And that is just plain idiotic - As in they have no sense for politics and obviously shout for the wrong reasons... You would think that the fatc that APO executed 1000 guerillas for wanting to support a national uprising would have upset the people... But not one soul shouted "UNFAIR" or "WRONG DOING"... And whats the reason for going from "FREEDOM FOR KURDISTAN" to "FREEDOM FOR APO" ????

[cheryl]

okay, so in other words, you are left speechless, Nistiman?

obviously, who knows what is really going on. this idea of "confederation" is not new. KADEK was talking confederation and so was KNK back in 2003. i read all their stuff (that was available in english) and the only objection that i had at the time was that i envisioned confederation as a stepping-stone to independence whereas they saw confederation as a final goal . i still see it this way, at least in liberated kurdistan in connection with federalism. . . it is a stepping-stone in that respect, what Dîrî says about PKK supporters not shouting "freedom for kurdistan" or "independent kurdistan" is correct and it is my objection.

originally, pkk's goal was independence. how could they have gotten so many recruits without dangling before them the prospect of fighting for an independent kurdish state? then with the creation of kgk, they seemed to give up even the goal of confederation for mere political and cultural rights. who is going to fight for mere political and cultural rights?

as to shouts of "bijî serok apo," my view on this is two-fold. first, of course, it means exactly what it says, that apo comes before the kurdish people. on the other hand, i think it can also mean something more. it can be a cry of resistance and it can be an announcement of all that pkk, embodied in apo, originally meant. . . independence. perhaps too, it can be a form of verbal bait against kemalists. i do think, especially in the case of kurds actually in turkish-occupied kurdistan, it is an invocation of apo as that symbol of kurdish resistance, which transcends his own actions, right or wrong (and there were both with him, just as with any other political leader).

when such shouts go beyond symbolism and approach claims of god-like status for apo, well, that is where i fall off because my mind simply will not accept such a thing.

also, Dîrî, when you mention internal executions by PKK of PKK members, or the god-like status thing, i think that these are expressions of classic marxist-leninism, which still affects the organization to a great degree, at least from what i am able to observe in their statements and news reports of their activity. even though they dropped the hammer and sickle years ago, the ideology is still there in a very strong way. when they still say things like, "Our congress (has) purged the PKK of its shortcomings and errors," a document quoted by MHA said," then the ideology is still in place.

having said all that, i also say that i sympathize with the gerîla on the ground and with the events that have forced many of them to leave their homes to fight. if i had undergone the same kinds of abuses, i think i certainly would have gone off to fight too.

[berxwedan]

What you are about to read is not a joke.

Kongra Gel has formed a new party called the KKK.

In Turkish, it would be pronounced Ka-Ka-Ka, but it is no better in English as it immediately conjures up images of the Klu Klux Klan.

Who in their right mind would name a Kurdish liberation movement
Koma Komelen Kurdistan????
What does Koma Komelen Kurdistan mean exactly?
Group of Kurdistan organizations?

In Kurdish, that is pronounced "Ke-Ke-Ke".

"Koma Komelen" means "CONFEDERATION" in Kurdish. Confederation itself means "Federation of Federations". (Which is the "Groups of groups" in Kurdish baby language.)

"Komele" or "Komela" can mean everything between association, group, federation, organisation, and so on.

Actually, the word "KOM" means "gathering". The "KOM" is also used in latin. "COMMUNE" for example.

A confederation is not a "PARTY" but a gathering of organizations (KOMA KOMELEN) for a "mutual support" or "common action" (KURDISTAN).

Merriam-Webster says this for "Confederation":

Main Entry: con·fed·er·a·tion
Pronunciation: k&n-"fe-d&-'rA-sh&n
Function: noun
1 : an act of confederating : a state of being confederated : ALLIANCE
2 : LEAGUE

Merriam-Webster says this for "Confederacy":

Main Entry: con·fed·er·a·cy
Pronunciation: k&n-'fe-d(&-)r&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
1 : a league or compact for mutual support or common action : ALLIANCE
2 : a combination of persons for unlawful purposes : CONSPIRACY
3 : the body formed by persons, states, or nations united by a league; specifically capitalized : the 11 southern states seceding from the U.S. in 1860 and 1861

In this case, it's number 1. (But you could of course use number "2" in your systematic antipropaganda against PKK as the meaning of "CONFEDERATION".)

"PKK" itself is a different "gathering" which is now only a "IDEOLOGICAL SCHOOL". PKK's mission is to be a

It means that KONGRA-GEL and its members HPG, PAJK, PJAK, TECAK, etc are still existing.

The KURDISTAN DEMOCRATIC CONFEDERATION must have been the most brilliant and genius step a Kurdish party/organisation/leader have ever taken for a very, very, very long time.

(And again, in political science, a "confederation" is NOT the same thing as a party. Maybe in a "cocoon of ignorance" in the planet of Niburu of the fifth stellar system in some galaxy, far, far away...)

Sorry to hear about Oso, Nizo and Faysalo breaking up. It still amazes me how ineffective people can be with all the opportunities, possibilities and the Western support they had. Man, if PKK would have all that support, the "independence" you guys are talking about would have been achieved in no time.. Like THIS fast, *ZIP*.

But when you don't for example know how hard the life of a proletarian is, you can't achieve anything, can you? Which is the FIRST "stepping-stone" to achieve independence in the Middle East. But then you still have about 1,000,000 steps left.

Btw.. Osman even called you guys "Turkish MIT" because of your systematic antipropaganda against PKK. Now THAT was something.. Apparently, he even has proof of that. It's a shame that you can't read Kurdish, or I would've asked you to read the articles on http://www.yndk.com..

SILAV U REZ

(In Turkish, that would be "Selamlar ve Saygilar", just like KKK would be KA-KA-KA..)

[Vladimir]

Who is the Turkish MIT??
Not the Kurdish people. Democratic opinion and freedom of expression.

[berxwedan]

MIT is the "Milli Istihbarat Teskilati", National Intelligence Agency. The Turkish non-military intelligence organisation.

[Vladimir]

I know.. I thought you meant us.

It became clear the MIT is spreading information against the Kurds. Maybe also about Talabani?

[berxwedan]

Who is "us" in "i thought you meant us"?..

[kurdistani]

The fundiment problm ith the PKK is that the PKK i just tactics within tactics.... It does not have a set goal... It merely attempts to keep the organisation aliv in what ever form... This Confederation idea is Bull shit....
It has no base in reality...
No one really knows what it means... It is just an attempt to make the Apo's selling out sound highly academic and intelligent... anyone with a brain does not buy it..... That is why KDP iraq i being to dominate Kurdish intellectual circles in Turkey...