Question Regarding Turkish Electoral System

[New Corduene]

I have a question about the recent elections in Turkey.

What is the difference for political parties to enter the parliament as a party on one side and as independent candidates on another?

My point is, what are the penalties of campaigning as independent candidates? Why is it that in Amed, BDP has gained 400,000 votes yet only six members were elected whilst AKP got only 200,000 votes, yet was able to send five deputies to the parliament!?
What happened to those additional votes? Why aren't they counted? Is there a difference in counting the votes?
I read somewhere that if there was not this 10 % threshold and BDP would enter as a party, it could've sent as many as 50 members into the parliament!

I have an idea of the reasons but I'm not sure! I would appreciate it if one who is well-informed on that matter could fill me in.

[New Corduene]

Since our Juice, Mr. Arab Children, is currently in Turkey, maybe he could explain that issue to me in detail!

[thearabchildren]

I would love to! But my dear Turkish comrades are also having trouble finding the answer to that! The electoral rules are as complicated as they are... fucking stupid. Seriously. What's this 10% cutoff shit for parties, and while it exists, why don't the majority of Turkish people vote for independents (since most of them vote for the CHP and the AKP not out of real faith in either of those parties, but to spite the one they didn't vote for)?

Parliamentary "democracy" is bullshit. I had it confirmed that the 10% quota for parties was raised from a previous 5% and pretty much exists to keep Kurdish parties out of parliament. I presume that however the rules for independents work, it is similarly written in such a way so that it never explicitly mentions Kurds or the Southeast, but "coincidentally" manages to minimise Kurds in parliament. A Greek Cypriot friend who is visiting us this week says that in Greece they play similar games to keep the Thracian Muslims from gaining any meaningful political power. Once again: Parliamentary "democracy" is bullshit.

[New Corduene]

The main issue I have trouble understanding is what happened to those additional votes BDP obtained, yet not considered or counted.
Does the process of vote counting differ for parties than those of Independent candidates!?

[Djembe]

I would love to! But my dear Turkish comrades are also having trouble finding the answer to that! The electoral rules are as complicated as they are... fucking stupid. Seriously. What's this 10% cutoff shit for parties, and while it exists, why don't the majority of Turkish people vote for independents (since most of them vote for the CHP and the AKP not out of real faith in either of those parties, but to spite the one they didn't vote for)?

Parliamentary "democracy" is bullshit. I had it confirmed that the 10% quota for parties was raised from a previous 5% and pretty much exists to keep Kurdish parties out of parliament. I presume that however the rules for independents work, it is similarly written in such a way so that it never explicitly mentions Kurds or the Southeast, but "coincidentally" manages to minimise Kurds in parliament. A Greek Cypriot friend who is visiting us this week says that in Greece they play similar games to keep the Thracian Muslims from gaining any meaningful political power. Once again: Parliamentary "democracy" is bullshit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D'Hondt_method system is used. And that is valid and fair election system. It is not a stupid system. It is actually fairer than for example Canadian electoral system where votes goes to garbage and only first party's member in the riding elected. For Kurds, 10 percent quota will not make much difference as they content election with their independent candidates. They get 6+ percent and they get 32 members of the parliament. It is fair number. 5 percent of vote would get 27.5 members. 1 percent vote would get 5.5 members. So 32 is not significantly below.

10 percent of quota is not due to Kurdish. Who ever confirmed this either does not know the political history of Turkey or 'stupid'. 10 percent quota is to prevent weak/unstable coalition governments by giving additional boost to the winner of the election in order to form a government with additional members in the parliament. So Kurds' paranoia of everything and everyone in Turkey is against Kurd is not the reason for 10 percent quota. And like BDP did, Kurd hacked the system and get their members to the parliament.

If there was no 10 percent quota, Kurds could have a few more seats, maybe but not that significant.

So, stopping complaining about election system.

And Parliamentary democracy is bullshit? If it is I am hoping you are not proposing Kurds' feudalism. Right?

[Kulka]

no - we proposing the respect for Kurds human rights and social rights, ok?
anyway - Kurds feudalism is much better than turkish so called 'democracy"

[alan131210]

oh we have a turk in the house lol , here we go this kemalist turks is been democratic it must be the end of the world ....

[Djembe]

oh we have a turk in the house lol , here we go this kemalist turks is been democratic it must be the end of the world ....

Turks are as diverse as Kurds when it comes to ideologies. Last time I checked Kurds have voted for years for Kemalists. Like Turks, many Kurds can be nationalist, left, religious, mafia, drug dealer, violent, tribal, atheist, fighter, cowards, stereotypical, prejudiced...No? Just look at MHP and BDP, you would see lots of common.

[Kulka]

someone is going to have fun with Kulka here, as i see

[Azamat]

oh we have a turk in the house lol , here we go this kemalist turks is been democratic it must be the end of the world ....

Turks are as diverse as Kurds when it comes to ideologies. Last time I checked Kurds have voted for years for Kemalists. Like Turks, many Kurds can be nationalist, left, religious, mafia, drug dealer, violent, tribal, atheist, fighter, cowards, stereotypical, prejudiced...No? Just look at MHP and BDP, you would see lots of common.

As a Dersim Kurd, I'm very sensitive to that subject, and I find your notion of 'many' Kurds for 'years' voting for the Kemalists narrow-minded. I will not deny that there are some jash Kurds among us, but in a logical sense, a Kurd voting for the Kemalists is like a Jew voting for the Nazis. Here's why:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dersim_Massacre
I recommend you to read this article thoroughly before leaving a reply.

[Djembe]

As a Dersim Kurd, I'm very sensitive to that subject, and I find your notion of 'many' Kurds for 'years' voting for the Kemalists narrow-minded. I will not deny that there are some jash Kurds among us, but in a logical sense, a Kurd voting for the Kemalists is like a Jew voting for the Nazis. Here's why:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dersim_Massacre
I recommend you to read this article thoroughly before leaving a reply.

Well it is not narrow mind. It is a fact. Tunceli is strong CHP riding for many years. And have you checked the last election result of Tunceli?

chp 56 %
ind 22 %
akp 16 %


Thanks for the link. I appreciate that. I read the same link a few months ago. I condemn the massacre and the government action on Dersim Kurd. There is no excuse, it is very bad.

[Djembe]

I have a question about the recent elections in Turkey.

What is the difference for political parties to enter the parliament as a party on one side and as independent candidates on another?

My point is, what are the penalties of campaigning as independent candidates? Why is it that in Amed, BDP has gained 400,000 votes yet only six members were elected whilst AKP got only 200,000 votes, yet was able to send five deputies to the parliament!?
What happened to those additional votes? Why aren't they counted? Is there a difference in counting the votes?
I read somewhere that if there was not this 10 % threshold and BDP would enter as a party, it could've sent as many as 50 members into the parliament!

I have an idea of the reasons but I'm not sure! I would appreciate it if one who is well-informed on that matter could fill me in.

New Corduene

The reason AKP is getting more members, because AKP is above 10 percent threshold, so it gets the votes for the parties under 10 percent threshold. Independent parties only gets the member for the votes they are voted for. That is why AKP gets extra members because of the votes for the parties under the 10 percent threshold.

Currently BDP got 6+ percent and get 32 vote. Considering Turkish Parliament has 550, so BDP gets fair number members.

For example MHP gets 13 percent vote but they got 53 members. BDP gets 6 percent and 32. So do the math.