Roj Bash Kurdistan

In a new interview with Mehmet Ali Birand, Turkey's leading journalist and famous writer, Mehmet Ali Birand says that the release of Ocalan will bring the solution of the Kurdish question to the table. He says that it will take time and it will include a general amnesty on PKK and the laying down of arms but it has to include the release of Ocalan and a political participation of Ocalan in Turkish and Kurdish politics.

Now we just need some Kurds to also understand: Ocalan= The solution to Kurdish question in Turkey

http://www.kure.tv/webtv/802-aktuel/bir ... dplayer=v1

Qonyeyi wrote:Now we just need some Kurds to also understand: Ocalan= The solution to Kurdish question in Turkey

Not every Kurds think like that. I have nothink against the release of Öcalan, PKK have the right to demand that, but they dont can claim the whole position for a solution for one person. They can say that he is a important actor for the dialogue, but there are also other people and there will be also a time after Öcalan. Northern Kurds must start to demand the right of self-determination, they must focus their policy on that.

Öcalan = A actor in this issue (Good or not good is a other question) But not the only solution, and especially not now, because he is in the prison.

Cewlik wrote:

Qonyeyi wrote:Now we just need some Kurds to also understand: Ocalan= The solution to Kurdish question in Turkey

Not every Kurds think like that. I have nothink against the release of Öcalan, PKK have the right to demand that, but they dont can claim the whole position for a solution for one person. They can say that he is a important actor for the dialogue, but there are also other people and there will be also a time after Öcalan. Northern Kurds must start to demand the right of self-determination, they must focus their policy on that.

Öcalan = A actor in this issue (Good or not good is a other question) But not the only solution, and especially not now, because he is in the prison.

Heval you should read a little about the solution for ethnic conflicts around the world. ALL of them end with negotiations with the leader ( unless of course one the nations are destroyed as in Sri Lanka war). This is a fundamental thing. Even from an objective point of view, negotiations with Ocalan ( as the leader of the opposite nation ' Northern Kurdistna') is the only peaceful solution to the Kurdish question. This is not because it is Ocalan. This is because he is the de facto leader of Kurds in NK. His name could be anything, his person could be anyone... Thats not the matter. The fact is, he is the leader and an ethnic-nationalist conflict can only be solved PEACEFULLY if negotiations with the leaders of both sides take place.

People can have their personal opinion about Ocalan. Again, from an objective view this is of no matter to the solution. People all over the world are realising this. They are starting to throw away their prejudices and their hatred towards Ocalan and look at the problem from an objective angel. Now we just need the rest of the Kurds to do the same; If you wish for a peaceful solution to the Kurdish question, you must throw away your hatred towards Ocalan and ask for the Turkish government to release him and negotiate with him. Your prejudices and hatred is not going to change anything - it might even intrigue a more military approach to the Kurdish question.

Qonyeyi wrote:
Now we just need some Kurds to also understand: Ocalan= The solution to Kurdish question in Turkey

http://www.kure.tv/webtv/802-aktuel/bir ... dplayer=v1

Fine, Qonyeyi please give me a few reasons why Öcalan might be the solution for the Kurdish question and what power he has to contribute anything helpful to the Kurdish cause (something like a hidden Öcalan army or some skills to convince the Turks of which we havent heard anything yet).


Feel free to answe this question whenever you have time.

Kurdistano wrote:

Qonyeyi wrote:
Now we just need some Kurds to also understand: Ocalan= The solution to Kurdish question in Turkey

http://www.kure.tv/webtv/802-aktuel/bir ... dplayer=v1

Fine, Qonyeyi please give me a few reasons why Öcalan might be the solution for the Kurdish question and what power he has to contribute anything helpful to the Kurdish cause (something like a hidden Öcalan army or some skills to convince the Turks of which we havent heard anything yet).


Feel free to answe this question whenever you have time.

Most importantly he has some realistic solutions that would include both Kurds and Turks being happy. Problem is that the government is not allowing him to publish his ideas. Basically what Ocalan is advocating, is that Kurds can govern themselves and Turks can govern themselves. Without seperating from Turkey. The most basic rights must be restored. Those are just in short what he is suggesting as a solution. I recommend you to read his books if you want a full insight in his solutions.

As to his power, he is still the representative of the Kurdish people in NK. At least the majority. He is also seen as the leader according to the 3-4 million of NK in diaspora. So he is in a position of power. As to his hidden army. He has army. He has military power. Most of it, we have not yet seen. But basically, Ocalan advocates that we should avoid military solutions.

Other than that, he has another important power factor. A support group both among intellectuals but also among the normal people.

These are just some things that would play in Kurds hands once Ocalan is freed. Again, alone the fact that he is the leader, and that leaders negotiate solutions, is a great reason why he is the solution to the Kurdish question.

Most importantly he has some realistic solutions that would include both Kurds and Turks being happy. Problem is that the government is not allowing him to publish his ideas. Basically what Ocalan is advocating, is that Kurds can govern themselves and Turks can govern themselves. Without seperating from Turkey.

So basically autonomy, nothing new about this ideas.

The most basic rights must be restored. Those are just in short what he is suggesting as a solution. I recommend you to read his books if you want a full insight in his solutions.

I dont think that demands for basic rights are something new we wouldnt know without Öcalan.

I have not red any of his books but heard enough of some phrases which in my opinion do not differ much from our enemy ones.

As to his power, he is still the representative of the Kurdish people in NK. At least the majority. He is also seen as the leader according to the 3-4 million of NK in diaspora. So he is in a position of power.

He is a leader who has fallen into enemies hands and nothing of his knowledge or ideas is new which other Kurds wouldnt come to think about.

As to his hidden army. He has army. He has military power. Most of it, we have not yet seen. But basically, Ocalan advocates that we should avoid military solutions.

So he has a hidden army in his cell (sorry for my sarcastic tone I am not trying to make fun of Öcalan just trying to understand how he might be the solution for something where he cant contribute to much)

Other than that, he has another important power factor. A support group both among intellectuals but also among the normal people.

No this is drifting away I didnt asked what some people or supportive groups could contribute to him but what Öcalan could contribute to his followers and these supportive groups if he was free.

These are just some things that would play in Kurds hands once Ocalan is freed. Again, alone the fact that he is the leader, and that leaders negotiate solutions, is a great reason why he is the solution to the Kurdish question.

Leaders have come and gone throughout Kurdish history, I dont know what would make Öcalan so much more special than other Kurdish leaders.


I am not against the release of Öcalan, of course it should be one of the demands but I find it simply wrong to put him so high as if he is the key factor for the solution, as if he is a messiah.

You asked me what powers he has. I listed some of them. And you totaly denominated them all one by one by saying you did not ask for his powers. Maybe you should read your own question.

I am not willing to go further in this silly discussion. Your mind about Ocalan is made up. I would be wasting my time if I was to try and convince you about what legal power status he has and about his ideas ( which are in fact the first ones of its kind - google democratic autonomy if you want to know about it... Or as I said, read his books). Tell me you are willing to listen and stop the immiediate mental barrier whenever I mention Ocalan and I might actually be interested in telling you a little about his ideas. But again, if you read his books you would understand the position he has. The knowledge he posseses. I can guarantee that Ocalan is the most intellectual Kurdish leader that has walked on this earth. Not that I measure intellectuality according to western values, but remember this: Ocalan's books are used in universities all over the Western world in the fields of political science, archeology, Middle Eastern history, anthropology and international studies.

But you have to understand, you and me can not have an intellectual discussion if you are going to bring up the '' he is nothing new, he is just an imprisoned leader'' bla bla. This is seeking away from reality. He IS special. And if you are going to deny that... Well, that is your problem.

In all honesty, you have not grasped my main point: This is not about Ocalan being Ocalan. This is not about making him into a ''messiah'' This is not because of his ideas. This is simply due to the fact that he is regarded the leader as NK by most Kurds. Again, this is nothing I have decided. This is the people's choice. And again, if you want to solve ethnic conflicts, you do it through the leaders. History speaks for itself in this matter. Even Turks are realising this. From an objective point of view, it is of no matter whether you like him or not. Objectively, he is the leader of a people and negotiations go through parties in their leaders.

i wonder what kind of food he gets to eat in jail hmmmmm

Ocalan's books are used in universities all over the Western world in the fields of political science, archeology, Middle Eastern history, anthropology and international studies.

WHAT ???

Give me the name of such Western universities and their program pleaaaase.

Piling wrote:

Ocalan's books are used in universities all over the Western world in the fields of political science, archeology, Middle Eastern history, anthropology and international studies.

WHAT ???

Give me the name of such Western universities and their program pleaaaase.

Well I do not really have access to their programs since I am not studying there. A person close to the PKK told me this. Then I started to look it up and it became true. For example, if you look at this page of reviews of the books, most of the people reviewing it are professors of different universities and colleges around the world in different fields. If you read their full reviews, you will realise that they are very excited by his books. But of course, they can not openly declare that they use his books for studies as he is still officially the leader of a ''terrorist organisation''. But hypothetically, if you were a professor and you were very excited by a book, would you include it in your studies?

Ghada Talhami, D.K. Pearsons Professor of Politics, Lake Forest College, Illinois
Michael M. Gunther, Professor of political science, Tennessee Technological University, USA
Tamir Bar-On, Professor of Humanities and International Relations, Monterrey Institute of Technology and Higher Education, Mexico

Ha ha ! I know Michael Gunter and I doubt that he 'includes' Öcalan as a master of knowledge and wisdom in his own lessons ! Of course, people who teach history of Kurds in Turkey and writing politic studies about the PKK, have to read and quote Öcalan (among other leaders), but only as a source and as materials for their own thesis and essays, not because they consider him as a exceptional thinker (though he consider himself like to be a genius).Be serious : no scholar can read Öcalan about history, anthropology, philosophy, etc., without yawning or bursting of laugh…

In fact, the only Kurdish leader of which I heard that he is taught in a high school, is the most unexpected, because hardly educated : Mustafa Barzani. His Long Retreat from Mahabad until Russia in 1947, with 500 Peshmergas, is studied as a bright piece of strategy in the French Military School (the equivalent of West Point Academy in USA). It is a paradox : this man never considered himself as a thinker or an intellectual, but he was a genius in military science… without claiming to be one. A lesson of modesty for the current leaders.

Some years ago, the University of Duhok wanted to nominate Massoud Barzani as a doctor when he came to visit them but he refused, saying that he was not a scholar, that he never study and he is only a Peshmerga. Perhaps he remembered his father.

Piling wrote:Ha ha ! I know Michael Gunter and I doubt that he 'includes' Öcalan as a master of knowledge and wisdom in his own lessons ! Of course, people who teach history of Kurds in Turkey and writing politic studies about the PKK, have to read and quote Öcalan (among other leaders), but only as a source and as materials for their own thesis and essays, not because they consider him as a exceptional thinker (though he consider himself like to be a genius).Be serious : no scholar can read Öcalan about history, anthropology, philosophy, etc., without yawning or bursting of laugh…

In fact, the only Kurdish leader of which I heard that he is taught in a high school, is the most unexpected, because hardly educated : Mustafa Barzani. His Long Retreat from Mahabad until Russia in 1947, with 500 Peshmergas, is studied as a bright piece of strategy in the French Military School (the equivalent of West Point Academy in USA). It is a paradox : this man never considered himself as a thinker or an intellectual, but he was a genius in military science… without claiming to be one. A lesson of modesty for the current leaders.

Some years ago, the University of Duhok wanted to nominate Massoud Barzani as a doctor when he came to visit them but he refused, saying that he was not a scholar, that he never study and he is only a Peshmerga. Perhaps he remembered his father.

Okay Piling. Anything else you want to add? Fact is fact. His books are used at different studies. Why are you comparing him to other leaders? What is the meaning? It is not going to change my perspective of him. You are a little hurt at heart that his books are used at studies. Well that is your opinion. I dont care.

And please, dont talk about military strategy. PKK is the most well functioning guerilla units of our time. Comparable to Vietcong.

I am still waiting for concrete proves, because only 'someone of the PKK told me is a bit light'. Which universities, studies, titles, authors ? Of course scholars of political sciences have quoted it, because they are studying the question. But no more like materials for their own studies. And concerning Öcalan's ability to write about 'archeology, Middle Eastern history, anthropology' sure it hurts me… laughing too much aches ribs.

Piling wrote:I am still waiting for concrete proves, because only 'someone of the PKK told me is a bit light'. Which universities, studies, titles, authors ? Of course scholars of political sciences have quoted it, because they are studying the question. But no more like materials for their own studies. And concerning Öcalan's ability to write about 'archeology, Middle Eastern history, anthropology' sure it hurts me… laughing too much aches ribs.

I think you have a problem with facts and Ocalan. I think it aches your head whenever you have to stay face to face with those two words combined. My case is clear, my proves are clear. If you want to deny it, it is your problem. I am sure anyone else can see that his books are used by professors around the world ( some of them I have already listed) in their individual studies.

What confuses me is how you can call it laughable while PROFESSORS ( unless you yourself is a professor of course) are calling his books some of the most well written books on the fields of Middle Eastern history and anthropology. You mean to tell me your knowledge and judgemental skills are better than those of world known professors? Talk about denying the reality

It is clear your hate for Ocalan is hindering your brain from accepting facts. I suggest you seek some help dear friend.

PROFESSORS ( unless you yourself is a professor of course) are calling his books some of the most well written books on the fields of Middle Eastern history and anthropology.

pleaaase I pray you : just ONE quote of these professors saying a such thing. I am greedy to read that.

In fact i don't try to convince you, just to laugh a bit. Convincing an apocî is useless and hopeless. You can't convince a Catholic that Pope is wrong in or a Shiite that Ali was not chosen by Muhammad, etc. Apoism is not a politic ideology, it is a religion. His followers want to believe, nothing else.