Roj Bash Kurdistan

Here I provide a couple of linguistically essential words of various foreign origins in Kurdish which are unfortunately, as well as unknowingly, getting persuasive by Kurdish media and intelligentsia despite the presence of original Kurdish counterparts; in its most catastrophic way continuously:

welat / willat: meaning "country", its famous derivatives include "hawwillatí", "néwwillatí"; from Arabic "wílayet"; the original Kurdish word for this definition stands as "hozbend" and, allegedly, "dohal*".

derya: meaning "sea", some of its derivatives include "deryawaní", "deryayí"; from Middle or New Persian "derya" which itself is derived from Old Persian "direye" a direct cognate of Avestan "zireye" ~ "sea"; the original Kurdish word for this sense is "zirye" which exquisitely elucidates the retention of Proto-Iranian "dz" as "z" in Kurdish, as a Northwestern Iranian language, that is absolutely attested in other Kurdish words such as "zava"/"zama" ~ "bridegroom", "zanín" ~ "to know", "zimig" ~ "nomadic winter residence", etc.

kareba: meaning "electricity"; an originally Persian loan ("kehroba" ~ "amber", but literally "hay-robber") which is most likely borrowed thru Arabic ("kehreba"). A literal Kurdish translation of the mentioned loan would be "kerifén" or "karifén", nevertheless the original Kurdish word for "amber" is "keshkelan" which can simply serve in the second meaning, namely "electricity", as well.

-ga / -geh: this unluckily famous suffix indicates the sense of "place": "zaníngeh" ~ "university" (literally "place of knowledge"), "komelga" ~ "milieu" (literally "place of society"). The loan itself is a Persian suffix, "gah", which is derived from Old Iranian "gate" ~ "place; time". It is worthy of notice that the aforementioned Old Iranian word is survived to the present time in Kurdish as "kat" ~ "time". Its another meaning, "place", is preserved as well, however in a pretty lesser extension: "shénkat" ~ "greenery" (Persian "sebzézar", "shorekat" ~ "saltpan" Persian "shúrézar".

qedexe/yasax: meaning "outlawed" or "forbidden"; both of Turkic (either Turcoman or Ottoman) origin. The original Kurdish word for this definition is "wawík" which is unfortunately fated to be overlooked by the so-called native intelligentsia and media so far.

I wonder it would be how much a "keshkelan" to you if you once recognized that it is no longer a socially "wawík" stuff to hear a fellow "hawhozbend" using "zirye" for "sea" in a colloquial conversation in the "komelkat"!

"dohal*" is probably a deformed version of Arabic "dewle(T)" or Aramaic "dewlā", look to her:

http://nisanyansozluk.com/?k=devlet

We Zazas say to this word "diwele", Kurmanjî has made probably an W > H-shift.

Can you say to me, how "qedexe" is pronouncing in Turkey Turkish? I search about its root since monthes and have not founded any etymological ressources.

According to the Zazaki Institute Frankfurt is "qedexe" loaned from Mongolian, but I need etymlogical examples.

And can you say to me, from which old Iranian langauge you have "mâwng" for "month"? Thanks.

Johny Bravo wrote:"dohal*" is probably a deformed version of Arabic "dewle(T)" or Aramaic "dewlā", look to her:

http://nisanyansozluk.com/?k=devlet

We Zazas say to this word "diwele", Kurmanjî has made probably an W > H-shift.

I do not think so bro. It, "dohal*" could be anything but a derivative of Arabic "dewle(t)". This Arabic word already exists in Kurdish, as well as in Persian and Turkish. Kurdish words such as "dewllet" / "dewlet" ~ "state", "government", "wealth", and "dewllemend" ~ "rich" contain this Arabic loan obviously (with no specific outward change). Its Aramaic, or generally any other Semitic, origin has got less than to be even considered of a "fat chance", since there is no accounts on it in the pre-Islamic records in any other Iranian language as far as I am aware. Another Arabic word "duwel" (Persian "dovel", Turkish "duvel") which could seemingly resemble "dohal*" at the fist sight, is exactly the irregular plural form of "dewle" and cannot be speculated to serve as a single noun, such as "dohal*", which might be pluralized indeed. I myself am not sure about the exact root of "dohal*" since I have the faintest idea about its other varieties though I am sure it got nothing to do with any assumable Semitic roots including Arabic "dewle" on account of what is already described above.

By the way any Zaza "diwele" could be resulted from former forms of "dule" < "dole" < "dowle" < "dewle", due to a well-known "u" > "we" change. Nonetheless that Kurmanjí "w" > "h" change occurs in case of the final "w" and is by all means an occasional phenomenon (newe > new > neh; if not to reckon it as a direct borrowing from Parthian: "neh" ~ "nine" > Persian "noh"). Other examples of such a change mostly accompany with a "w" in Soraní cognates which accurately indicate a "d" > "g" > "h" change rather than a direct "w" > "h":

Early Kurdish : Kurmanjí : Soraní

bodin* (>bogn*) : béhn : bown (smell)

wigar : bihar : biwar (passage)

Johny Bravo wrote:Can you say to me, how "qedexe" is pronouncing in Turkey Turkish? I search about its root since monthes and have not founded any etymological ressources.

According to the Zazaki Institute Frankfurt is "qedexe" loaned from Mongolian, but I need etymlogical examples.

Although my Ottoman Turkish is not that much perfect but I haven't heard of any words resembling "qedexe" in their language up to now. I do not know but it could be something like "kadağan" if they had it ever. However I can assure you about Azerbaijani Turkish words "qedeğen" and "qeduvan", the last one an informal and rural form as apposed to the first one. Most likely you could find it in Iraqi Turcoman too and probably Kurdish has borrowed it from this Turkic language (during the reign of Turkmen tribes). This loan has also entered Persian lexicon as "qedeghen" which is widely used along with Arabic "memnu", both in sense of "forbidden". I have no idea about its accurate Mongolic root but certainly from a more precise aspect even "yasax" itself is a Mongolic loan too, but thru Ottoman Turkish of course.

Johny Bravo wrote:And can you say to me, from which old Iranian langauge you have "mâwng" for "month"? Thanks.

Well I am unfortunately away from my place and on a trip by now, thus my linguistic library is out of reach. But I will manage to answer about "mawng" in the Academy Forum at my earliest convenience bro.

I do not know but it could be something like "kadağan"

You are good!

http://tr.wiktionary.org/wiki/kadağan

Johny Bravo wrote:

I do not know but it could be something like "kadağan"

You are good!

http://tr.wiktionary.org/wiki/kadağan

I am glad that it helped and I presumed correctly.

Correction:

due to a well-known "u" > "we" change.

There is no an u -> ue-change in Zazaki, only an o > ue/ui change, like in roc > ruec, ko > kue, xo > xui and other 100 examples in the Central Dialect.

Johny Bravo wrote:Correction:

due to a well-known "u" > "we" change.

There is no an u -> ue-change in Zazaki, only an o > ue/ui change, like in roc > ruec, ko > kue, xo > xui and other 100 examples in the Central Dialect.

I do not know why but combinations such as "ue" sound too much coarse to pronounce to me while we've already got "w" letter within our alphabet . Anyways it, "ue" or "we", is a matter of orthography and I am presently not competent to discuss it.