The start Site of this Forum. It got a lie

[Mosul]

these assyrians are so funny, we can just laugh at them all day, with their claims, they can claim, and they can claim all day, but nothing is happening, but kurdish lands and citys thriving, and that includes, hewler,sulamaniyah,musil, and ofcourse kirkuk.

how do you like that ramatayah?

[Rumtaya]

Be serious : how many Assyrians lived in Hewlêr in the 19th century ? in the 16th century ? In the Middle-Ages ? Arab travelers in the 12th century went and described Hewlêr as a Kurdish city. Was there a genocide of Assyrians before islam ?

If you read the Ottoman census at the end of the 19th century (BEFORE the genocide) you could have some surprises concerning the Christian population. Do you think that they were in majority ?

Not much because Assyrian Fleed their lands at the time of the coming of the Mongolians which was around 13 th cenutry so you wouldnt find alot of Assyrians in the Area which is called Assyria. But just watch at the chronical of Arbil there are or have been alot of old churches.

Diri:

What do you mean? Are English enemies of truth and love and peace just because they call German city "Köln" for "Cologne"?

München or Münich? Which one is it?

Come on... This is too much...

The difference by dear Diri is that also if they call them Cologne or Munich they are still German Cities so there is no problem by calling them diffrent. But by Arbil if you call it Hewler you make it to a city of Soutern Kurdistan and claim it to be Kurdish City which have always been Kurdish one.

Look - Assyrian nationalist are the same way - they want parts of Kurdistan... So what is your point?
Of course we will call it South Kurdistan - instead of North Iraq...

What do they want?? Never heard Assyrians claiming for nonnone Assyria. I think you mean they claim for Hakkari area and so well these Areas where also known as a part of Assyria but i wouldnt claim for them.

But South Kurdistan doesn't, in my mind - mean the same as Assyria - because I think Assyria is on the Nineveh plains + some more places...

Diri do you know what the Nineveh plains are????
have a look at that map:

I couldn't see the first map you posted... What is it?

It was that map which the KRG present for the new Kurdish Area in Northern Iraq. Do you remember the map??

Let me ask you - WHAT IS BEST (?) :

1) Assyria be a part of Secular Federal Kurdistan Region

or

2) Assyria be a part of Islamic Federal Iraq Region?

Thats a question i cant answer you now cause there is no spliting in the moment but how about the solution making an Assyrian Federlstate within IRAQ???

heval:

We call it Hewlêr, you call it ArbaElu. We call it Kurdistan, you call it Assyria. This is really a never ending debate The fact of the matter is that we still consider Hewlêr as part of Southern Kurdistan.

That will never end till we find a fair solution. But does Arba Elu make a since in kurdish???? i dont think so but in assyrian it means 4 gods.

According to many Assyrian maps, Jerusalem is part of Assyria as well... Are you ready to claim that land too?

you just forgot to put the word "Empire" after Assyria it was part of Assyrian Empire not of Assyria those are two diffrent things.

You claim that the lands of Kurds rest in the mountains... the mountains were indeed a resting point of our Median ancestors. However, we claim that our ancestory comes from more than just the Medes and our ancient ancestors before the Medes had kingdoms stretching far beyond the mountains.

Well i know you have other ancorst to but those ancorst never used to come from Arbil or Kirkuk. They were from Anatolia and the Taurus.


Mosul:

these assyrians are so funny, we can just laugh at them all day, with their claims, they can claim, and they can claim all day, but nothing is happening, but kurdish lands and citys thriving, and that includes, hewler,sulamaniyah,musil, and ofcourse kirkuk.

Oh i see my friend Mousl is back. I dont remeber that i made a joke you could laugh about it but well no problem laughing is healthy.
The red one i have marked arent really Kurdish cites but inhabited at majority by kurds.

how do you like that ramatayah?

There was missing some salt but i liked it how you call that menu?? Stealing with Weapons

[Rumtaya]

What you can find in the net by typing Arbil:

its from wikepedia but its what mostly other resource say too.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
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Arbil (Arabic: اربيل, arbīl; also written Erbil or Irbil), or Hewlêr (Kurdish), is one of the large cities in Iraq. The city lies eighty kilometres (fifty miles) east of Mosul (at 36.18 N 44.02 E). In 2005, its estimated population was 990,000 inhabitants. The city is the capital of the Kurdistan Regional Government.

Urban life at Arbil can be dated back to at least twenty-third century BCE. The city's archaeological museum contains only pre-Islamic objects. Arbil's name is thought to come from the Akkadian arba'ū ilū, meaning four gods. The city was a centre for the worship of the Assyrian goddess Ishtar. In classical times, the city was known by its Aramaic name, Arbela. The Battle of Gaugamela, in which Alexander the Great defeated Darius III of Persia in 331 BCE, took place about one hundred kilometres (eighty miles) west of Arbil. After the battle, Darius managed to flee to the city, and, somewhat inaccurately, the confrontation is sometimes known as the Battle of Arbela. However, Arbil remained an important provincial capital of Persia throughout the centuries and dynasties. Arbela served as the capital of the independent kingdom of Adiabene in the first century CE.

Adiabene was one of the later Assyrian Kingdoms.

[Piling]

Well it shows that Arbailu has an Akkadian name (not Assyrian), and was temporarily the capital of the temporary Akkadian, then Assyrian then Babylonian, then Mitanni, then Hurrit, then Mede, then Persian empires... and after Ummeyyad, Abbassid, Zanguid, Ayyubids' states, etc...

So why so-called Assyrians' sons would have more right to belong this city than other former inhabitants, and espcially more rights than current inhabitants ?

Moreover Ishtar was not specifically an Assyrian Goddess. It was the Semitic Goddess of Venus, and was an Akkadian/Babylonian goddess too. Her cult is attested in Southern Mesopotamia before the Assyrian civilisation.

[Rumtaya]

Well it shows that Arbailu has an Akkadian name (not Assyrian), and was temporarily the capital of the temporary Akkadian, then Assyrian then Babylonian, then Mitanni, then Hurrit, then Mede, then Persian empires... and after Ummeyyad, Abbassid, Zanguid, Ayyubids' states, etc...

If some educated people would hear that what you are saying they would laugh or start to cry.

Assyrian is the northen dialekt of Akkadian language and the southern was Babylon so wrong what you say.
You know that Assyria descibes a land not only an Ethnic. Akkadian were part of that Land.

AssyriBabylon are the same people just like southkore and nordkorea.

So why so-called Assyrians' sons would have more right to belong this city than other former inhabitants, and espcially more rights than current inhabitants ?

Because Assyrians came after the Sumerians and Akkadians so its Assyrian Citis and land of Assyrians. Like the Kurds claim to have parts of Hurrians, Medes and others so its by Assyrians there have been other nation assimilated into Assyrians.

Moreover Ishtar was not specifically an Assyrian Goddess. It was the Semitic Goddess of Venus, and was an Akkadian/Babylonian goddess too. Her cult is attested in Southern Mesopotamia before the Assyrian civilisation

.


It was an AssyroBabylonian Goddess so you are wrong. Assyrians adopt that part later. But still ArbaElu is 120% Assyrians like Karkuk and todays Mosul. Accept that thsoe places and Cities belong to Assyrians but if you dont want peace then you can go on to claim on them.

And now dont say you arent the Majority in no of these cities because that isnt our fault we have been reduced in the Genozid if that wouldnt be so we would count now more then 12 millions.

and not just 1 million or so in our homeland.

[Piling]

Because Assyrians came after the Sumerians and Akkadians so its Assyrian Citis and land of Assyrians

And as Kurds came after the Medes who came after the Assyrians after the Sumerians and Akkadians.... etc... In that logic, YOUR logic, then the last inhabitants are the good ones.

The origins of Assyrians is unknown. At the 3rd Millenium their territory was wide, and slowly they have been pushed toward Nothern Mesopotamian by Arian people. There, they mixed with local populations and semitic tribes. At the XXVth century, they are identified like a distinct people, and had closed contacts with Sumerian and Akkadians. So they had been strongly influenced by Akkadian and Sumerian, but they are not issued from them.

[Rumtaya]

And as Kurds came after the Medes who came after the Assyrians after the Sumerians and Akkadians.... etc... In that logic, YOUR logic, then the last inhabitants are the good ones.

No you didnt understand what i meaned. I said that Akkadians and Summerians were Assimilated into Assyrians. The Assyrian culture is based on the Ashurism the founder of Assyria what stands in the bibnle was the nephew of Noah he was called Ashur.

Finally i am talking now an akkdian influenced Aramaic.

The origins of Assyrians is unknown. At the 3rd Millenium their territory was wide, and slowly they have been pushed toward Nothern Mesopotamian by Arian people. There, they mixed with local populations and semitic tribes. At the XXVth century, they are identified like a distinct people, and had closed contacts with Sumerian and Akkadians. So they had been strongly influenced by Akkadian and Sumerian, but they are not issued from them.

And Assyrians are known since more then 6750 Years. But the first Assyrian State was founded around the 2th Century BC. In our calander we have today the Year 6755. so 4750 BC as the first Ashur Temple was build we count the time of Assyria.

Here a link Assyrian Timeline:
http://www.aina.org/aol/peter/timeline.htm


What Arian People came from the Northeast of todays Iran what is know as Indukusch around 1000 BC to the Northwest of todas Iran.


A part of the Book "The Might That was Assyria"
which descrbibes what Assyria is:

..... the Central Assyrian homeland, from which so much of the Ancient Near East came to be controlled (first half of the First Millenium BC), was a very small country. Basically Assyria was the land along the Middle Tigris River. Its northern limit was just north of modern Mosul (near Nineveh), where the foothills of the Kurdish Taurus Mountains gave way to plain. Southward it extended to the region where the Tigris breaks through a range of hills called Jebel Makhul west of the Tigris and Jebel Hamrin to the east.

The Tigris itself cuts Assyria down the middle. To the west of the Tigris is an extensive plain, the Jazirah, with a mountain range called Jebel Sinjar at its northern end. The Jazirah stretches westward as far as the Habur River. To the east, the Tigris is fed within the region of Assyria by two major tributaries, the Great (Upper) Zab and the Lesser (lower) Zab Rivers. High mountain ranges, in which the two Zabs rise, form a rough quarter-circle east and north of Assyria.

Thus, while there is a single plain west of the Tigris River (Jazirah), eastern Assyria is cut into three. One sector is the plain between the Great Zab and the northern mountains; for this, Nineveh was always the most significant city in ancient times, as nearby Mosul is today.

The second sector is the area between the two Zabs, centered on Erbil. These two sectors were always, from the time that one can speak of a country Assyria, elements of it.

The third sector is the country south of the Lesser Zab as far as the Jebel Hamrin; this area includes Kirkuk, in ancient times the city Arrapha. Assyria at its most limited did not control this region. Arrapkha, Erbil, and Nineveh, with Ashur on the west bank of the Tigris, were the only major cities, for Assyria was predominantly a land of country towns.

[Piling]

I don't contest that, after or during the 3d Milenium, Assyrians settled in Northern Mesopotamia and founded an Kingdom, following by an empire. But they were not the only (and not the las) population to settle in that region and to found an empire.

So why the former Assyrian state would be today more important than others to determine the legal status of Hewlêr ? Assyrian empire and its former population have disappeared. Now some Christians in Iraq, because they speak aramaic claim to be their descendants. OK. Probably they have Assyrian ancestors (among others), as Kurds too. All the population in this regions are mixed blood. You say that Assyrians had assimilated Akkadians and Sumerians (they had not the same location, and probaly Assyrians should already share the country with moutainer ancestors of Kurds like Guti, but OK). But in that case you could wonder if former Assyrians did not be assimilated by Kurds ? For the practice of Aramaic is very closed to religion (Christianism or Judaism). In regions where Armenians and Kurds lived, for example, when an Armenian became muslim, he became Kurd too, for he entered in a "Kurdish tribe". We could envisage that the same phenomenon happened in Northern Mesopotamia. The more Christians converted to Islam, the more they entered in "Kurdish clientelism", they were incorporated in Kurdish tribes. As many Jews, for example. So probably "muslim Kurds" or "yazidi Kurds" or Aramaic Jewish or Aramaic Christians have the same proportion of Assyrian ancestors, among others (Akkadians, Guti, Medes, Persian, Scythes, etc).

But even IF Eastern Christian are purely issued from former Assyrian empire (and I don't believe but ok IF), it does not make their "rights" on Hewlêr more important than the "pure" descendants of Medes who seized Niniveh in 612 BC and founded another empire. That's not logic. Assyrians were only an intermediary power in Northern Mesopotamie. Not the first, not the last one. So I don't see why their "ownership" on that country is absolute and above all other people's.

[Diri]

Exactly Piling...

NO people OWN any land... STATES OWN LAND... And right now - KURDISTAN is the only STATE in that area which OWNS land...

So technically speaking EVERYBODY in Kurdistan STATE(South Kurdistan State) is a KURDISTANÎ... But at heart you can be Assyrian, Jew, Turkmen or Armenian or any other nationality...




I live in Norway - and I have Norwegian citizenship - ERGO - TECHNICALLY I AM NORWEGIAN - AT HEART I AM KURDISH...

[Rumtaya]

I don't contest that, after or during the 3d Milenium, Assyrians settled in Northern Mesopotamia and founded an Kingdom, following by an empire. But they were not the only (and not the las) population to settle in that region and to found an empire.

How can Asyrians settle in the 3rd Millinum if there was an Ashur Temple at 4750 BC?????

So why the former Assyrian state would be today more important than others to determine the legal status of Hewlêr ?

Beacuse Hewler nobody use only Kurds and Hewler was never known as Kurdish city and the name Kurdistan was not know till the 12th century as the came of mongolians. But there is no Problem Kurds can live in those Area as citizen of Assyrian(not as Assyrians) The same would go out for the Assyrians in the Mahabad Area they live as Kurdish Citizen(not as Kurds)

Assyrian empire and its former population have disappeared. Now some Christians in Iraq, because they speak aramaic claim to be their descendants.

Are you denying the Assyrians??? I see you learnd from Turks well no wonder you used to be the best friends of Turks. Dont you shame to deny Assyrians??? You do the same like your enemies the Turks.

OK. Probably they have Assyrian ancestors (among others), as Kurds too. All the population in this regions are mixed blood. You say that Assyrians had assimilated Akkadians and Sumerians (they had not the same location, and probaly Assyrians should already share the country with moutainer ancestors of Kurds like Guti, but OK). But in that case you could wonder if former Assyrians did not be assimilated by Kurds ? For the practice of Aramaic is very closed to religion (Christianism or Judaism). In regions where Armenians and Kurds lived, for example, when an Armenian became muslim, he became Kurd too, for he entered in a "Kurdish tribe". We could envisage that the same phenomenon happened in Northern Mesopotamia. The more Christians converted to Islam, the more they entered in "Kurdish clientelism", they were incorporated in Kurdish tribes. As many Jews, for example. So probably "muslim Kurds" or "yazidi Kurds" or Aramaic Jewish or Aramaic Christians have the same proportion of Assyrian ancestors, among others (Akkadians, Guti, Medes, Persian, Scythes, etc).

Ok its normal that Assyrians have mixed like others too that is no wonder Assyrians used to assimilate people. Noone of today is 100% of one origin.

But even IF Eastern Christian are purely issued from former Assyrian empire (and I don't believe but ok IF), it does not make their "rights" on Hewlêr more important than the "pure" descendants of Medes who seized Niniveh in 612 BC and founded another empire. That's not logic. Assyrians were only an intermediary power in Northern Mesopotamie. Not the first, not the last one. So I don't see why their "ownership" on that country is absolute and above all other people's.

do you need a prove that Assyrians still exist??

Here read this is from the best and educate Assyrlogican Simon Parpola you should read it:

http://aanf.org/America/assyrians/assyrians_assyria.htm

You cant deny the rights of Assyrians.

You should be a spourter of assyrians because some tribes of your Nation have the fault that alot of innocent Assyrians were genozid. We have a fair World and youll see that Assyrians rising again.

[Diri]

LOOOOOOL


Are you on MSN, Rumtaya? This needs discussion...

Are you blaming US for what TURKS did? They PAYED SOME Kurds to kill Christians... That has NOTHING to do with US... They did it with the TURKISH FLAG... Not the KURDISH Flag...

[Rumtaya]

Exactly Piling...

NO people OWN any land... STATES OWN LAND... And right now - KURDISTAN is the only STATE in that area which OWNS land...

So technically speaking EVERYBODY in Kurdistan STATE(South Kurdistan State) is a KURDISTANÎ... But at heart you can be Assyrian, Jew, Turkmen or Armenian or any other nationality...




I live in Norway - and I have Norwegian citizenship - ERGO - TECHNICALLY I AM NORWEGIAN - AT HEART I AM KURDISH...

Ah by the way the Palestines have also been there where they are now but there is a litle diffrence the STATE ISRAEL.

What is then with Jews?? They also didnt owned a land but they took back what was known as Israel so what??? Do you want to go to them and say go away Jews your to late you have been 2000 years away you cant get here your state???? The same situation Assyrians have and well take again our lands.

There is noone a Kurdistani??? Or do you have Kurdish Passport in "Southern Kurdistan"?????

WE HAVE BEEN GENOZID IT HAS BEEN TRIED TO FORCE US TO CONVERT IT HAS BEEN TRIED TO ASSIMILATE US.

But they didnt pass that with 100% we are still there ASSYRIANS ARE HERE.

Dont compare what Assyrians suffered with that what Kurds suffered i dont want to say the sufferd less no Kurds have been also killed and massacred in the last 80 years, but Assyrian have suffered since the FALL OF ASSYRIAN EMPIRE.

[Diri]

LOOOL...

Okey Rumtaya... Do as you want...

And be as UN-SYMPATHATIC as this the rest of your life...

See? We are better than you... LOL - We don't say "Assyrians didn't suffer as much as Kurds"... That is such a dumb thing to say... Everybody has suffered... But what have you done to get your rights? That is the real question... Most Assyrians have FLED... Most Kurds have STAYED and taken more punishment...

We have come to the place we are now with HARD WORK... We don't even NEED to have this discussion... Because obviously you have a FIXED mind - which is blind to others pain and very un-sympathetic...

[Rumtaya]

My dear friend Diri i am not saying you havnet any rights you guys have more right to get a State before Assyrians you fought and you are still fighting for it what i want to say dont make Assyrian Homes to Kurdish Homes.

Cant you guys understand me?
What can Assyrians do my friend all around us are Muslims the Europeans dont care on Assyrians what can we do. Assyrians and Kurds should suppourt eachother but Kurds are only acting in their intrests that is my problem and mostly of other Assyrians why we have a hate on kurdish leader and kurdish acting.

If you wuld know me good Diri you wouldnt think so of me i am really a person who thinks you can solve problems without gun without hate.

We´ll see what the Future brings.

I really wish for the Kurds an Kurdistan where they can live under their rules and noone opresing them i think the same you wish for the Assyrians.

[Piling]

Concerning the temple of Ashur, the first testimonies of inhabitation dated from 2300 BC (pre Sargon's period). 4750 BC is a very very very fantasist date... At this time Mesopotamia was (as the rest of the word) still in Prehistoric period. Archaic civilisations like Ur and Uruk cultures only started between -3100 -3000. Before it was only Neolithic Chalcolithic Period. No architecture, no writing. 4750 was the end of the Tell Halaf culture : just stoned vase, small statues, etc. The first State-City only appeared in Southern Mesopotamia about -3000.

aina. org is not a good historical source. Just ideology. So be careful with their assertions.

But there is no Problem Kurds can live in those Area as citizen of Assyrian(not as Assyrians)

LOL ! of course ! a few minority of Assyrians would kindly allow to Kurds to live in the country where they are in majority... Sure they will kiss your hands...

I will tell you : you have the same dogma than sionism/ Jews say : we are descendants from Hebrew and Hebrews lived in Palestine in Ancient times, then Palestine is our country and we have the right to expell Arab muslims. Even if these Muslim Palestinians are probably closer descendants from former Hebrews than European Jewish... But it is a religious ideology : God had given Israël to Jews so they had the right to expell Muslims...

Out of religious ideology, you have no justification to claim that Hewlêr is YOUR land (especially if your Grand-Pa was in Hakkari.... why you don't want to come back in Hakkari ?).