Demands for Kurdistan borders:

[Rumtaya]

at which time was that so? BC or AD?

khabour area is historical Assyrian area!

[Piling]

It was during the Middle Age and until 19th century with the kingdom of Bohtan.

Concerning Ancient Times, the place was inhabited by Kardukh. Ancient region of Bohtan was called Beth Kardu by Arameans and the city of Cizîr : Gazarta d'Kardu. Armenians called it Kordukh and Arabs Bakarda. Strabon called the moutains betwen Mush and Diyarbakir : Corduen, as the name of the province under Persian rule.


But the problem is that no one knwo which language spoke these Kardukh : Semitic (kardu= Hero in Akkadian-Assyrian)? Iranian ? Georgians ? (Kardukh could = Kart'/Georgians). So these ancient settler in the region are known by their name but we don't know who they were.

Minorsky proposed too, as Kurdish ancestors the Pakhtnès/ Bokhtan a people who gave their name to the Bohtan river (herodotus quoted the name as an Achemenid districts, next to Armenia). Why not ? In the Sharaf nameh, Sharaf Khan Bitlisî told that 2 brothers Bokht and Bachan were the ancestors of to Kurds.

Some others said that Kyrtii (Kurdish tribes from Eastern Kurdistan) have conquested the Kardu's land and iranized their language, after the populations have been mixed each others. Why not ?

All that we are sure, is that at the time of Islamic Arab conquest, the term "kurd" was general to call a confederation of iranian nomad tribes : among them could be ancient Kardus which had been assimilated by Kyrtii.

So for answering by a synthesis : the ancient local population of Bokhtan/Kharduki had an unknown origin, and after the arrival of Iranian nomad tribes from Van, Urmiah, Media, etc, they had been progressively adopted an iranian language which is the roots of current Kurdish. But these question of origins are always complex and difficult to prove without written testimonies and a lack of linguistic evidences. So each nationalist could use as he wishes, but without scientific evidence. By the way, the region of Bohtan is currently inhabited by Kurds and for a long time.

[Rumtaya]

i just typed Bohtan in google.

that is what i have found from wikipidi

Bohtan Neo-Aramaic is a modern Eastern Aramaic or Syriac language. Originally, Bohtan Neo-Aramaic was spoken on the Plain of Bohtan in Sirnak Province of southeastern Turkey, but it is now spoken mostly around the village of Garbadani, near Rustavi in Georgia.

Before the First World War, there were around 30,000 speakers of Bohtan Neo-Aramaic on the Plain of Bohtan, around the town of Cizre in Turkey's Sirnak Province. Mostly Assyrian Christians, their language was a northern dialect of Chaldean Neo-Aramaic, but already somewhat more conservative than the standard Alqosh dialect. With the turmoil that hit eastern Turkey at the end of the war, many Christian peoples were forced from their homes. A decimated population travelled from Bohtan and eventually resettled in Garbadani in southeastern Georgia, 530 km from their original home. Many of the speakers of Bohtan Neo-Aramaic are over sixty year of age. The younger generations tend to use Georgian or Russian instead.

Oh i see lost Assyrians very intresting i would like to know how many Assyrians there are in Georgia.

Ressource:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohtan_Neo-Aramaic

[Piling]

Sorry but Wikipedia is not a source very sure. Anybody can write what he wants in it. The best source is Ottoman census. Moreover, the number of 30.000 has nos sense if you don't give the number of muslims living in the same place at the same time...

And I never say that there were no Christians in that part (of different cults). There are mosques and churches in the capital, but it was the political and cultural capital of powerful Kurdish princes and powerful tribe even if there were other religions in there : Jews and Christians (Neo Aramaic is spken indifferently by Christians and Jews in Kurdistan, and Jews were numerous in Kurdish lands).

[Diri]

Yes... You are right, Rumtaya - I was a bit annoyed when I read your posts...

Let's discuss the post instead of Cizîrê Botan... Their Kurdish, by the way, is along with the Kurdish of Colemêrg and Hewreman the most pure Kurdish... Avec moi opinion...

[Piling]

MON opinion

You know in Botan, there are koçer, from Dêrik to S,irnak to Hakkari. They speak a special Kurdish, very ancient... They are the pure Kurds because they are nomads, I think

[Diri]

MON opinion

You know in Botan, there are koçer, from Dêrik to S,irnak to Hakkari. They speak a special Kurdish, very ancient... They are the pure Kurds because they are nomads, I think

There is no such thing as a pure Kurd... There can however be pure Kurdish...

And if we were to talk of Pure Kurds - it would definetly be the Êzidî...

You know - they only married other Êzidîs - and we know only Kurds are/were Êzidî... Ergo...

But there are two social layers in Kurdish society which are most demarced - the nomads and the nobles...

[Piling]

Oh it was just a joke ! But that is right that koçer's language is archaic, different from others (at least in Eastern Syria).