new start

[tomjez]

what? no I can see them

[Piling]

The last one yeah, I see it. Very nice tongue. No need to oblige him to open his mouth, like Saddam. Good guy.

[tomjez]

Yeah he is very collaborative, that's a fact

[cheryl]

Nistiman writes:

And, what is more, when I see that the position which I have criticized is changing along the very path which I advocated for, I will have the honesty to appreciate it and not continue to find new or old faults of the PKK ...

yeah, and i think this idea of the organization evolving is something that has gone on since the beginning. i think that when any political organization does something that one considers positive, it should be supported in its efforts. equally, if a political organization does something that one considers negative, then it must be criticized.

Supporting the PKK does not mean I will be with them every twist and turn of their policies, but I will not be one of those alligators that Cheryl mentioned trying to bite at their heels.

exactly so, Nistiman, and i think that you and i both know that if one makes a statement or asks a question that may have even the slightest appearance of support or sympathy for PKK or ocalan, then the attack is immediate from all of those firmly in the anti-PKK camp. conversely, if one makes a statement or asks a question that may have even the slightest appearance of criticism or condemnation of PKK or ocalan, one is just as immediately and ferociously attacked from those firmly in the pro-PKK camp.

witness this forum and all the fuss that your little question has brought about no one has even spoken to your original question and i'm willing to bet that no one even remembers what it was, now that we've been bombarded with all of the anti-apoci propaganda. are you up for an experiment? why don't you post something that may give a negative appearance to PKK/ocalan and let's see what happens?

i am reminded of dante's Inferno

best of luck on your finals.


tomjez, did one of your turkish military friends photoshop that photo? i'm sure it gives the ülkücüler great pleasure to see it here in a kurdish forum.

[Nistiman]

witness this forum and all the fuss that your little question has brought about Razz no one has even spoken to your original question and i'm willing to bet that no one even remembers what it was, now that we've been bombarded with all of the anti-apoci propaganda. are you up for an experiment? why don't you post something that may give a negative appearance to PKK/ocalan and let's see what happens?

i am reminded of dante's Inferno Rolling Eyes

best of luck on your finals.

Thanks Cheryl... I've always enjoyed discussing with you but as for any serious contribution to this forum, I will think twice about it...

I was reading Nietzsche today and he says things so damn succinctly, I'm amazed each time I internalize another of his famous aphorisms!!!

On being misunderstood: "When one is misunderstood as a whole, it is impossible to remove completely a single misunderstanding. One has to realize this lest one waste superfluous energy on one's defense."

(Now, I really need to get back to work )

[Piling]

no one has even spoken to your original question and i'm willing to bet that no one even remembers what it was

If you look at the complete threads, you could see that Tom and I and Diri had answered to Nis,timan 's statement, often point by point, and that only Dils,ad made the effort to answer at his turn, and to answer to our questions.

[tomjez]

About the Maymunapo photo (monkey apo).

I found it on nasname.de, website which can't be said to belong to ülkücü....it's in kurdish and turkish and it's mainly opponents writing in it, sometimes people who have been sentenced to death by PKK. It's a very interesting source of information, and if you are blind enough to say they are "traitors" or "servitors of the military" it will prove that you don't tolerate any alternative voice within northern kurds.

What's more nasname is not even fiercely anti PKK, they tolerate many various opinion...

but globally they don't like apo

ÖCALAN HIRİSTİYAN MI OLDU?


"Abdullah Öcalan’ın fikri serüveni gerçekten ilginçtir. Gâh bir Marksist, gâh bir İslamcı, gâh Kemalist olarak karşımıza çıkmaktadır"

so this is not only "friends of the turks" who don't respect apo and think he is an opportunist and a traitor...

Nistiman and Cheryl, I'm sure you read turkish, so just try to discover this website...you won't agree, but you will be forced to recognize that my opinions or pilling's one are not "anti-kurd".

YES I chose to make joke or to put silly photo, because your rethorical style is so empty, so boring that it's useless to answer. You probably have the same empty eye when you talk about politic, the same I saw so often in Diyarbakir, Istanbul, Brussels, Strasbourg. South Kurdistan was a relief for me, because it was good to see little sparks in kurds' eyes, to see PDK peshmergas making jokes about their leader even if they respected them.

Apo is nothing more than a wanna be dictator, a man with a frozen mind, narcissic, coward, mythomane, who never fought and is proud to say so. The fact that kurds continue to respect him after 1999 was a mystere for me, until I understood how deep the brainwashing is. But all northern kurds are not like you, anyway you don't live there.

If turkey was clever enough to make a general amnisty for PKK fighters, it would be the end of PKK. PKK is the only thing preventing Turkey to have good relationships with south kurdistan, so PKK jeopardizes the first durable experience of independance for Kurds. And I think they do it on purpose. I'm sure the future proves I'm right.

I have no personal interest in this debate! I'm not kurd and it is not my fight. You can say that I'm "pro-military" as much as you want, even YOU know it is totally stupid. But you're not different of turkish grey wolves who accuse me to be pro PKK because I say Turkey's behaviour towards kurds is a scandal.

As I always say, being hated by PKK followers and Fascist turks is the proof that I am very probably right.

[cheryl]

Thanks Cheryl... I've always enjoyed discussing with you but as for any serious contribution to this forum, I will think twice about it...

I was reading Nietzsche today and he says things so damn succinctly, I'm amazed each time I internalize another of his famous aphorisms!!!

On being misunderstood: "When one is misunderstood as a whole, it is impossible to remove completely a single misunderstanding. One has to realize this lest one waste superfluous energy on one's defense."

(Now, I really need to get back to work Smile )

It is always great to find a quote like that one just when you need it

[Vladimir]

Or a way to escape, when you're wrong.