who is ahmad turk ?

[dyaoko]

the Dogan News Agency , has published a news in that Ahmad Turk the head of "Democartic Community of Turkey (or a name simmliar to that )"
has said , Kurds have the right to have self-detemination.

he has said , day by day , the independence movement of the Kurds in the world becomes more powerfull ...
today we see southern brothers of kurds are on their way to independence
we have supported that ...and... blah blah

http://peyamner.com/article.php?id=30543&lang=kurdish

who is this ahmad turk ? is he a good guy? why he is not like other turks?

[Piling]

Ahmet Türk is a Kurdish politician. he was a former mp of the former Kurdish Party HEP. He is an activist since a long time before the PKK was created (I tell it for he seems independant of them).

[dyaoko]

Ahmet Türk is a Kurdish politician. .

...I should have guessed that he is not turk .

by the way which party he is member now...did I translate the name right ?
is it the party that leyla zana created?

[Piling]

It is the Democratic Society Party. I don't remember if it is the same than Leyla Zana, it changes all the time.

Here is a complete interview :

http://www.thenewanatolian.com/htm/subs ... 004-37.htm

And yes it is the same party than Leyla Zana, but she is forbidden to have political activities in Turkey now. The co-chairman of this party is an Öcalan's lawyer, so I think that this party is the successor of DEHAP : half PKK or entirely PKK, I don't know if Ahmet Turk has a real power in this party.

[dyaoko]

here is ahmad turks new sayings :

90% of the Kurds of Turkey want to live with Turks !
when I say Kurds should have the right of self-detmintaiotn, it doenst mean kurds have the right of independence or even federalism

kurds dont want indepednecne and federalism , Kurds right of self-determinations means Kurds want to have a comon future and life with Turks.

we dont want indepednece or federalism , ....

I wonder what Ahmad Turk wants then ... to live with Turks ? dont they already live with them ?

source :
http://peyamner.com/article.php?id=31587&lang=kurdish

[dyaoko]

why do you think peopel of north kurdistan shouldnt be pro apo , with such ahmad turks.

[Piling]

Dyaoko : this speech is the official Apoist thinking ! The woman is Öcalan's lawyer, and she has for mission to give Öcalan's order to Kurdish parties.

She only took Leyla Zana's place as Apo's parrot, for Zana is currently banned from political life.

[dyaoko]

Dyaoko : this speech is the official Apoist thinking ! The woman is Öcalan's lawyer, and she has for mission to give Öcalan's order to Kurdish parties.

She only took Leyla Zana's place as Apo's parrot, for Zana is currently banned from political life.

u mean apo doenst want federalism and all he wants is living with turks ?

[Piling]

he says it since 1999 (since his arrest in fact).

And he says too that Kurdish nationalism is BAD and Kurdish independantists should be FOUGHT.

He has said last year that he wants federalism (but only if he was the leader of this federation for all the Kurdistan...), but just before he has said too that a Kurdish federation in Southern Iraq was bad...

So he changes his ideas all the time, and his lawyers at each visits, state the NEW and BEST IDEOLOGY from their leader.

So what this paper states is probably the last Öcalan's ideas. Nothing new in any case concerning the " we are all Turks, we love Turkey", even Leyla Zana told it when she was free, and she told it at the European parliamant ! And much Kurds were sick to hear that she "represents the Kurdish voice" (for European medias).

[dyaoko]

if that is true, then obivously Apo has become psycolgycial sick and insane.
and that wouldnt be strange, if a human lives years under torture and lonliness.

but if that is true, that pkk loves turkey and turks and all they want is living turks and they dont federlasim and indepdence.
then... what the they are fighting for in the cold mountains ? why they dont come back to the cities and live with turks if they want that .

but why leyla zana should say such bullshits ?

it is a bit unbelivealbe. I wish some apocis reply and defend themself and let us know about their views.

[Piling]

Öclan has never been tortured by Turks, and he has stated it since the first minutes of his arrest. But he is logical, he has always said that his own life and safety are more important than all the Kurdistan.

Why the PKK followed him ? It does not love Turks and Turkey, but only its guru, what he says is always RIGHT, whatever he says... as a religion.

But the current presidency of the PKK is composed by several high ranked members, and all of them seek for their own interest. They don't want to be arrested by Turks, and to surrender. But they need to raise the figure of Apo for the common members continue to follow them. So they say "Apo, Apo" but fight each others : Osman Öcalan vs Cemil Bayik, for example, both say : "we are the real Apocî" but both have a different position from Öcalan. All these 3 guys don't fight for Kurdistan but for themselves moreover.

But real apocî are brainwahsed, and essentially say that Öclalan is more important than all the Kurdistan. If they have to choice between an idnependant Kurdistan and their leader, they would choice Apo and his love for Turks ! As for Leyla Zana she has no personnal and independant ideas, she just repeat what her "President" says.

This is blindful fanatism, no more. It would have not any imortance IF in Northern Kurdistan they prevent any kind of real Kurdish policy. But Kurdish patriots are trapped between Turkish state and PKK's ideology, and have not real freedom to chose a third road...

[tomjez]

if that is true, then obivously Apo has become psycolgycial sick and insane.

Good my friend, join me on the "PKK sucks" side of the force You see! I was not talking like a turk!!!!!!!!! Now you understand

[Dilsad]

Just one thing concerning Leyla Zana,

I have met her in europe right before she was put in jail. This woman knew she would be put in jail for a long time, killed or worst.
People had asked her to stay in europe...
Well you know what followed, she went back in turkish-occupied-Kurdistan and was arrested and put to jail.

Her reason was and I quote: "I can do more for the Kurdish cause captive in jail than free in europe".

So tell me Pilling, she doesn't really sound like "I'll do anything to save my skin"...like what you've reported her "president, leader, guru" (apo) has said. So if she was like that, why did she go back?

But let me guess, you still get your news from the institute in paris...hey listen, they are like fox news...it's not real...listen it's not reaaaaaaaaaaaaal...wake up!

D...

[dyaoko]

has PKKer , Leyla zana and others has ever replied to these critics? if yes what they said ?

by the way , if you look at PJAK (eastern wing of pkk) and the good programs in roj tv, ... etc, you wouldnt say their only goal is saving apo's life.

[Piling]

ust one thing concerning Leyla Zana,

I have met her in europe right before she was put in jail. This woman knew she would be put in jail for a long time, killed or worst.
People had asked her to stay in europe...
Well you know what followed, she went back in turkish-occupied-Kurdistan and was arrested and put to jail.

Her reason was and I quote: "I can do more for the Kurdish cause captive in jail than free in europe".

Effectively when she was in Europe the PKK has told her to not return in turkey but she has insisted to dot it. I don't think it was so useful... as I think that her speech in Turkish Assembly was not clever, for the first time there was a Kurdish party the HADEP in Turkish Parliament and she spoilt everything, just because she wanted to play "martyr attitude"... or perhaps the PKK worried about the political success of the HADEP .

And some days just before her arrest, she talked a long time by phone with Öcalan, while she was in Ankara, and of course, listened by secret police...

Leyla Zana is not stupid and coward like Öcalan, she is only stupid.

And you are not well informed about the Kurdish Institute's official opinion , it has supported her a long time, and has even made campaign for starting her celebrity in Europe, before the PKK in fact.

So she was essentially the mediatic puppet of Europe, at a such point that in 1999-2000, in Turkey, ppl were surprised when Foreign delegation cared about her. She was only considered in the HADEP like a "woman with psychological trouble". And of course Öcalan, a bit jealous of her "success", sometimes tries to weaken her position, sometimes uses of her against another PKK official, like Murat Karayilan for example, or Dehap direction.