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Kurdish group takes credit for Istanbul cafe blast

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PostAuthor: heval » Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:14 am

Vladimir wrote:You got some sources for that mate! 8) ?

I want to teach my zaza Kurdish friends more.


Yes sir. Kak Vladimir, have you ever read any of Dr. Mehdad Izady's work?

Well, here are two passages from his book, The Kurds: A Concise Handbook

"From the time the Kurds are Aryanized until the 16th century of our era, the Kurdish culture remained basically unchanged, despite introduction of new empires, religions, and immigrants. The Kurds remained primarily followers of the ancient, Hurrian religion of Yazdanism, spoke an Iranic language that the medieval Islamic sources termed Pahlawani. Pahlawani survives today in the dialects of Gurani and Dimili (Zaza) on the peripheries of Kurdistan. Only the loss of Kurds of the southern Zagros through their metamorphosis into Lurs and a fresh expansion of Kurds into Elbruz and Pontus mountains that are noteworthy events..."


"There is, as should be expected, a strong correlation between practice of ancient Yazdani religion and the speaking of Pahlawani, as there is also a close connection between being a Muslim and speaking Kurmanji. The shift from the former to the latter identity in Kurdistan is accelerating, and seems destined to totally submerge the residual Pahlawani-Yazdani identity of the older Kurdistan. Only a shrinking number of Kurds still speak Pahlawani in the form of the dialects of Dimili (Zaza) in far northwestern Kurdistan in Turkey, and as Gurani, Laki and Hewrami (Awramani) in southeastern Kurdistan in Iran and Iraq. The old religion of Yazdanism is still practiced as Alevism, Yezidism and Yarisanism (the Ahl-i Haqq) denominations, but these too are shrinking in number and import..."
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PostAuthor: heval » Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:16 am

And if you are willing to accept the fact that Zaza (Dimili) is directly connected to Gurani (and Hewrami) - and by studying the languages' structure in grammar and great similarities in vocabulary, you cannot deny the fact that they are dialects of the same language - then you may read the article below describing the conflict of the true identity of Gurani (and Hewrami & Zazaki) speakers:

http://www.kurdishacademy.org/english/articles/articles-003.html
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PostAuthor: tomjez » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:55 am

There is a great article by Van Bruinesen on Kurdish Zaza Alevi identity, I'll try to find the link
http://istanbuldakitom.blogspot.com/

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PostAuthor: Vladimir » Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:42 am

It's on his homepage.. and some parts are contested Tomjez..

And Heval M. Izady.. are you sure he is to be trusted?
The suppression of ethnic cultures and minority religious groups in attempting to forge a modern nation were not unique to Turkey but occurred in very similar ways in its European neighbours - Bruinessen.

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PostAuthor: tomjez » Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:46 am

http://www.let.uu.nl/~martin.vanbruinessen/personal/publications/Alevikurds.htm

Of course some parts are contested! Anyway he doesn't really give his ow opinion, he presents a lot of theories. Fascinating anyway
http://istanbuldakitom.blogspot.com/

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PostAuthor: Piling » Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:33 pm

M. Izady.. are you sure he is to be trusted?


Not much. He twisted each facts in the sense of its nationalist will. Van Bruinessen is less partial I think.
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PostAuthor: zurderer » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:02 pm

heval wrote:
zurderer wrote:yeah yeah, we tried to teach you history, It looks like you didnt learn you are turkish.


Haha, I was talking about real history, not the fabrications of Turkish nationalists. Teaching us fake Turkish propaganda is not teaching us history.

...by the way, watch the racist comments... seems like Ataturk is getting the best of you...



I am racict? yeah I am, but not because I am teaching you turkish history, It was a sarcasm. You cannot teach anyone anything.

Infact you are also weird guys, I am talking about exiling 5-10 million kurds, and you are complately agreeing me.
:wink:

But when I talk about zazas, I become racist.
:roll:

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PostAuthor: Piling » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:05 pm

As your nation has already exiled millions of Kurds from their country to yours, the contrary would be only a return of exiled people in their own land. Why should we oppose to that ?
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PostAuthor: zurderer » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:11 pm

Piling wrote:As your nation has already exiled millions of Kurds from their country to yours, the contrary would be only a return of exiled people in their own land. Why should we oppose to that ?


what about armenians? they had some city, what do you think about them.

Wait no need to say, I dont think you will give them van or agrı. :wink:

By the way, when did two mistake make one right.

Infact you dont care your people, like all nationalists.

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PostAuthor: zurderer » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:13 pm

by the way, They were not exiled turkish lands.

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PostAuthor: Diri » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:15 pm

Zurderer


What do you mean? Is it wrong for people who WANT to return, to return? Is that called Exile? :lol:


I didn't say anything about FORCING people to move back... Everybody will make his and her choice - but I estimate that the majority of us WILL return...

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PostAuthor: zurderer » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:21 pm

No, I did. I talk alot of time, mass exiled. noone accused me racism(Infact you were totally agree me, or liked my words), but when I talk about a stupid history thing, I becomed racist. :lol:

Majority will return? I remember news about a kurds, who stabbed one of his relative, because they did not let him to return istanbul.

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PostAuthor: Piling » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:26 pm

Just one ? It is not representative of millions of refugees.
I red many stories of refugees, they're longing of their village, and they don't like Istanbul. And they suffer of racism in Istanbul.
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PostAuthor: zurderer » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:29 pm

Piling wrote:Just one ? It is not representative of millions of refugees.
I red many stories of refugees, they're longing of their village, and they don't like Istanbul. And they suffer of racism in Istanbul.


Err, what type of racism you mean? I think you red so much weird story, yeah their life is not much fine at istanbul.(Because of their education is not enough), but they dont want to return kurdistan.

My friend do you realy think 5-10 million kurds immigrated turkish land, because of exiles?

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PostAuthor: Diri » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:52 pm

[quote="Zurderer]Majority will return? I remember news about a kurds, who stabbed one of his relative, because they did not let him to return istanbul.[/quote]


Hahaha...

So - what was the CONTEXT for him wanting to go back? Don't you think maybe he had some personal problems with is family? That can hardly be representative of anything...

When you spoke about Kurds being sendt back to Kurdistan - I agreed... Because it is the RIGHT thing to do - I don't care WHY you wanted to send them back...

Maybe you said so because you hate to have Kurds in Turkey? Or maybe you are a person who seeks justice - doesn't matter as long as you are wanting what is best for them! :wink:

Zaza are Kurdish just as much as I am Kurdish... No less... And it isn't about history... This is about their identity...

How many words of Zazakî do you understand? :)
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