"Turkiye": the reality...

[tomjez]

Not the security forces who are trying to calm down the mobs

Ok that's a little exagerated!

[zurderer]

trying to control will be a better word.

by the way, how can they try to calm a mob that actively attacking them?

[piskrt]

OK! I erased it.

[Diri]

OK! I erased it.

"Okey you erased it"?

What the fuck is this? Even if you erased it - it says a LOT about how you THINK... It says a lot about YOUR MENTALITY!!!


I HATE the PKK... I don't think anybody hates it as much as I do...

I don't support the PKK - I support the right for a 6 year old boy to LIVE HIS LIFE AS A KURD!!!

You disappoint me with your narrow-minded one sided and utterly biased view on the Kurds who are now demonstrating in the streets...

I condemn the burning of others property!

I condemn the use of violence against civilians!

But most of all - I condemn the use of violence by the Turkish police against unarmed Kurds... And the killing of people...

They are ALL to blame - but the STATE and POLICE - have the responsibilty for their "citizens" even if thay are second-class citizens... I don't give a damn! But they DO have that responsibility! And they are not owning up to it!

Those jandarma ARE bastards...

Who said the military should be involved in this? See how Turkey thinks? It feels a need to put in military forces... AGAINST CIVILIANS...

[Piling]

The question too is if they have deliberately shot the boy or if it is a "lost bullet".

[piskrt]

Yeah Diri-

I agree with you. They should have let the mobs burn down all the public property and ignore all the things happening.

[tomjez]

Diri the thing is that it was not a peacefull protest. They did not have flowers but molotov cocktails. So it was not "unarmed kurds" but a few thousands PKK supporters. These guys were looking for violence, looking for martyrs, for chaos. Sure the dead of a child is shame but no child should be around these kind of protests.


Agence France Press says that according to kurdish witnesses the police did not respond to violence by unproportionned violence...

They are ALL to blame - but the STATE and POLICE - have the responsibilty for their "citizens" even if thay are second-class citizens... I don't give a damn! But they DO have that responsibility! And they are not owning up to it!

I agree to that, but when extreme left turks are rioting in istanbul suburbs, people can get killed as well...

In any country, a violent riot against police leads to death of civilians...

In france it was a miracle that no rioters get killed in November, just because police is trained to avoir that, not responding to provokation and not responding to violence by equal violence. Much often more policemen get injured than rioters...

[Vladimir]

I agree with Tomjez. PKK wants to show they are there. It's not about Kurds or Kurdistan. Only about PKK.

[Kurd delal in]

First of all, no Turk with SOME sense of dignity and self-respect would blame the Kurd for putting upp a resistance to the occupation of Kurdistan. The respect-worthy Turk is Ismail Besikci that sees where the problem lies: the occupation of Kurdistan by the Turks, Arabs and Persians. That's the starting-point and whatever happens thereafter is of course open for discussion. Besikci, for instance, openly criticises the Kurds for not showing wisdom and courage. He askes us: "there are nations of 100.000 that have a seat at the UN. You are a nation of 40 millions without recognition! Why does that not bother you?". That's what I call "constructive criticism"... Everything else is nothing but attempts of the Turkish state's agents to confuce the issues and the minds.

Having said that, I need to comment on the recent events. It is easy to be excited and proud over the fact that Kurds are taking on the security forces without fear and showing their anger and determination: showing that the Kurds are alive and kicking. After all, since the "handing over" of the PKK leader Ocalan (but in fact long before that too) new "concepts" are being emposed on Kurds. The idea is to integrate the Kurds into a broader system of Turkey and Turkishness, within the borders of "Turkey" and the current system of "one nation, one language, one state". In fact, the Turkish state has tried to do the same in 85 years. Strange enough, the same is being done by the "Kurds" themselves. Therefore, one might see the recent events as very positive and as a cry from the Kurdish heart, true Kurdish intentions free from all "concepts" and projects.

But with a closer look and taking into account the political realities and processes that are taking place, some other truths emerge. Loost Lagendjik, the EU's representative on the relations with Turkey made some interesting comments recently. "Kurds should realise that they have no future with the PKK". I agree. But his comments are important because he is not an enemy of the Kurds: he has no reason to be and I believe he is, on the contrary, a friends of the Kurds. He has made clear that he does not always agree with the Turkish AKP government but that he prefers them to the "social democratic" (not!) CHP and the army. He clearly sees that there is a conflict between the two sides: AKP on one hand and CHP/MHP/army on the other. I personally prefer a Turkey in the EU to a Turkey that will waste everybody's time with the well-known traditional policies and strategies.

I watched the AKP leader and Turkish Prime minister Recep Aydogan's speech on live TV some hours ago. He said some interesting things too. he said "we know who is doing all this!". The American representative alsa said that "I don't know about the DEPTHS (!) of the issue but, sure, it is very concerning". They both underline that there are some forces behind the events. Notice that EU, AKP and US seem to be on the same side, whereas the Turkish army and its "Political" (yeah, sure) wings are on the other.

But where is PKK in all this? It is very clear that Ocalan and PKK are working with the turkish army and MGK (national security committe). We can see that cooperation by looking at Ocalan's views on southern Kurdistan (the pride of all Kurds); his attempt to replace Kurdistani territory with some none-sensable "middleastern confederation" and replacing the Kurdish flagg with some other colurs and clothing. All these are a part of the Turkish state's attempt to kill anything that has to do with Kurdishness. it is a part of a 85 years-old Kemalist project.

The recent events, I believe, is an attempt by the traditional Turks (and their "Kurdish" allies) to weaken the Europe friendly AKP government. It is an attempt to show them that the PKK can easily manipulate people to vilolant action. The Turkish "hard-wings", ie the army is using the PKK to use that Kurdish child against AKP.

It is well-documented and commented on that the PKK is closer to the army then to the AKP government. IN fact, Ocalan himself have expressed that in many of his from-prison-dialgues.

How strange it may seem, I find the AKP government more in the interest of the Kurds then the PKK, because the PKK now is the same as the Turkish army. PKK is in no way Kurdish any longer...

Of course, in the long run the Kurds will mobilise themselves for the recognition of the Kurdish will and political status and a free Kurdistan, but at this very moment I personally see no value in the PKK and Ocalan. The value, I believe, is in the EU and all that would entail. What will cross the Turkish facist mentality is the fresh winds from Europe. Those winds will assist us Kurds closer to OUR OWN aims and objectives.

In a truely Kurdish politics no child would get hurt because politics would serve the interets of people, not some few masters of darkness.

[Vladimir]

http://www.netkurd.org/nuce.asp?id=1311
You mean this news? I heard him saying that before. I should call his assistent.. he promised me an interview.

[Kurd delal in]

Yes bra Vladimir,

It was a Turkish journalist from Vatan newspaper that interviewed Mr. Lagendjik that Netkurd.com partly translated to Kurdish. I think his words (and the timing) are very significant.

How great an interview with him be... I will pray that you will get through to him and make that interview.

Please ask him this: WHy isn't the EU more open about the Kurds' national rights and isn't it time they helped the Kurds appriciate the EU by encouraging them to get more involved in the negotiations as a partner independent from the Turks? That would shift the focus from "hard power"-oriented PKK to more constructive politics. It would also strengthen reform-friendly Turks... It would certainly help to civilise politics in general and take power from those "masters of darkness"...

[zurderer]

Code: Select all

They are ALL to blame - but the STATE and POLICE - have the responsibilty for their "citizens" even if thay are second-class citizens... I don't give a damn! But they DO have that responsibility! And they are not owning up to it!

Now you have good point, yes state have responsibility against their people, and God know they are not doing their job fine.

But calling rebellions as a innocent, armless people is wrong too. State should protect both himself, and his people(This also consist a lot kurdish people who live in diyarbakır), and state should be careful about controling riots.

State is not doing his job well, but at least they are trying. Mob, supporter of PKK is trying to harm both to state and kurds(who have not same idea with them)

Infact I dont know why ocalan is still alive.

First of all, no Turk with SOME sense of dignity and self-respect would blame the Kurd for putting upp a resistance to the occupation of Kurdistan.

So I am sure no kurd would blame turks, for protecting their country, and unity of it, this is what kurds at iraq doing against turkmens.

[piskrt]

Please ask him this: WHy isn't the EU more open about the Kurds' national rights and isn't it time they helped the Kurds appriciate the EU by encouraging them to get more involved in the negotiations as a partner independent from the Turks?

You mean PKK should sit on the Table with Turks in the negotiating process!!!

It would also strengthen reform-friendly Turks...

You must be joking. No Turk would tolerate negotiating with PKK. Forthermore, it would make kurds soft-target.

[Kurd delal in]

State should protect both himself, and his people(This also consist a lot kurdish people who live in diyarbakır), and state should be careful about controling riots.

State is not doing his job well, but at least they are trying. Mob, supporter of PKK is trying to harm both to state and kurds(who have not same idea with them)

Hold it there, Turk!

The state we are talking about is a TURKISH state, ie the Turks' state and nothing to do with the Kurds. This state belongs to the Turks and its sole purpose is to protect and advance the perceived TURKISH interests. At the same time, this TURKISH state has as its main objective to exterminate the Kurds, their history, identity and everything that has to do with Kurds and Kurdistan. So don't come and make ity look like the TURKISH state is some kind of "neutral" administrative body that approches both Kurds and Turks equally. The TURKISH state is racist and Turkish. Its flagg, offical history, language, "national" anthem etc etc all Turkish and nothing to do with Kurds.

You are a typical Turkish fox to use the PKK to divide the Kurds. THIS STATE IS AN OCCUPATION FORCE AS FAR AS THE KURDS ARE CONCERNED. And as I said eralier, any Turk with some disancy would focus on criticising the occupation force. After all, what you call the "Kurdish question" is nothing but Kurdistan being occupied and governed by the Turkish, Syrian and Iranian states.

So I am sure no kurd would blame turks, for protecting their country, and unity of it, this is what kurds at iraq doing against turkmens.

Again, what the Turks are doing is "protecting" their occupation of Kurdistan, tyring to maintain their rule in and domination of Kurdistan. The idea that they are "protecting their country" is ridiculous. They are protecting their rule in the Kurds' country. Notice the difference between "state" and "country". Turks have a state but no country. Their country is wherever they occupy by force. The Kurds' country, however, is Kurdistan and therefore whatever force the Kurds are using is legitimate whereas any force the Turks are using is illegitimate because the occupation of Kurdistan is illegitimate. Despite everything, the Turkish state is illegitimate as far as Kurds and Kurdistan is concerned.

And yet again, typical Turkish way of living: distortion and misinformation... You are so naked and out there that it is laughable. The benefits and protection the Turkmens are getting from the southern Kurdistani government is more than the Turks have given to any non-turkish people in their entire history. The only "Turkmens" that are the enemy of the Kurds in the south are those who are under direct influence of the Turkish state, the JITEM and MHP, ie the Masters of Darkness.

What was the rate of the Turkmen Milli Cephesi votes in the last elections?

[piskrt]

What was the rate of the Turkmen Milli Cephesi votes in the last elections?

What was the rate of the votes the Party which supports your ideas? Let me say: 5 percent. This means at least 60% of the kurds do not support your pan-kurdist ideas.