"Turkiye": the reality...

[piskrt]

The problem is that living its Kuridsh identity is not so easy than claiming to be a Turk.

Yes, I would agree with that. But that does not mean that every kurd is discriminated just because of his or her origin.

I am sure that a few number of Turkish nationalists are not ready to give the same status and freedom for their Kurdish citizens.

I would agree with that too although I did not clearly understand which rights these are...

[piskrt]

You have such a simple-minded view of everything, Piskrt. Everything only has two colors for you, black and white, and you don't look very deep into the problems but only the surface, which is often what media portrays to the world

Yes, I would agree with that too. But you are not much differnet from me too. You hate the word the "Turk" while I hate the word "PKK". at least my hatred is towards an organization not towards a nation.

[heval]

You have such a simple-minded view of everything, Piskrt. Everything only has two colors for you, black and white, and you don't look very deep into the problems but only the surface, which is often what media portrays to the world

Yes, I would agree with that too. But you are not much differnet from me too. You hate the word the "Turk" while I hate the word "PKK". at least my hatred is towards an organization not towards a nation.

Don't put words into my mouth. Please find one comment in this entire forum where I said I hated the word "Turk" or ANY other group for that matter. You will not find it anywhere. I even said in an earlier post in this thread or the other one that I know many Turks whom I have great respect for. I advocate human rights and equality whether for Kurds, Turks, Arabs, Persians or any other "race" on the face of this planet.

Piskrt, you are a liar and you are upset that the Turkish government, which you love so much, has failed you by committing its crimes.

[tomjez]

Tomjez, I have always been a bit confused about your position regarding Kurds but I suspect that you have some sympathy since you continue to visit Kurdistan websites and forums.

LOL I visited kurdistan before visiting websites....I know other stuff than Istanbul, including north and south kurdistan, from Mosul to Van and from Suleymanye to Malatya, thank you.

I just think exactly like this dutch EU man, that's all. PKK is a pain for kurds, an obstacle to any solution, a party working for its own good and not for kurdistan.

You're confused about my position towards kurds. It is simple: democracy and human right for kurds in every country, independance when and where they can. And THIS can't be achieved with PKK, so I'm opposed to PKK, as a lot of kurds are.

PKK is an ennemy of intelligence, peace, freedom, truth, tolerance, just as the most fascist turkish nationalist is. this an hypocritical party, calling for peace and provoking war, whose ONLY aim is to be "the sole representant of kurdish people", even if it implies killing all the kurds who disagree.

So don't be confused Heval, this is my position and it has always been since I'm on this forum.

These days I don't really think I should feel ashame to vomit PKK; I said once month ago they were about to provoke deadly riot, they're just doing so....Do I work for MIT or something? Or have I just enough lucidity to read between the lines of their stupid declarations?

[tomjez]

what pisses me off the most is that in such a terrible situation, the only hope is from Turkey!

Will they be clever enough not to respond to provocation, or will the hardliners take advantage of this call to war from PKK to cancel every improvement (I know, nothing, blabla, cosmetic, just to please EU, blablabla) that occured in the last 4 years??

[heval]

Tomjez, I have always been a bit confused about your position regarding Kurds but I suspect that you have some sympathy since you continue to visit Kurdistan websites and forums.

LOL I visited kurdistan before visiting websites....I know other stuff than Istanbul, including north and south kurdistan, from Mosul to Van and from Suleymanye to Malatya, thank you.

You're confused about my position towards kurds. It is simple: democracy and human right for kurds in every country, independance when and where they can. And THIS can't be achieved with PKK, so I'm opposed to PKK, as a lot of kurds are.

Thanks for your clarifications. I probably missed it but I just see many put the blame on Kurds - PKK or not, and never the Turkish government. I guess that's where I was confused about your position.

[piskrt]

Piskrt, you are a liar and you are upset that the Turkish government, which you love so much, has failed you by committing its crimes.

Yes, I guess so.

[tomjez]

no no no

I put blame on PKK, not kurds . And turkish government is stupid in the sense they don't try to bring kurds on their side against PKK by totally democratizing this dusty republic!

it's crazy to think that if turkey would only say "OK for federalism and kurdish language in schools and university", you can be "turkish citizen" and "Kurd" without "being-a-danger-for-the-integrity-of-the-republic"...PKK would be PISSED OFF! because that's what they fear! being useless...

[heval]

Piskrt, you are a liar and you are upset that the Turkish government, which you love so much, has failed you by committing its crimes.

Yes, I guess so.

Glad you admit it.

[piskrt]

It is simple: democracy and human right for kurds in every country, independance when and where they can. And THIS can't be achieved with PKK, so I'm opposed to PKK, as a lot of kurds are

I guess a referandum would clear the way. Ask the people if they want to be aprt of kurdistan! and the yes-syaers should have their state, non-syaers should stay. and the people who want to go to kurdistan should be able to leave. ın that case, I think 3-4 cities (diyarbakır, batman, hakkari, şırnak) will except that proposition, others would vote to stay.

Clear-cut solution which would solve the question once and for all.

[piskrt]

it's crazy to think that if turkey would only say "OK for federalism and kurdish language in schools and university", you can be "turkish citizen" and "Kurd" without "being-a-danger-for-the-integrity-of-the-republic".

That would be useless. Granting indenependence is a much better option than that.

[Kurd delal in]

You are talking about HADEP. HADEP got around 30% of the votes in Kurdistan. What they get "over the whole Turkey" means nothing because "Turkey" does not exist.

This proves my case. YOU are a sich nationalist, egoistic kurd. NOTHING more. . Bu people like you are the problem. You should pray forgiveness from the people you terrorized. Your PKK menatlity does not mean nything to me. You are just a sich bastrd like other PKK fans. Go nad kiss APO's ass, I am sure he would welcome your service.

Who is the "bastard"? You are not a Kurd, not even a Turk but a SLAVE OF TURKS.

So not only "Turkey" but also people like you don't exist... You are just a ghost created by the Turkish state... I will ignore you from now on. YOU HAVE NO VALUE, NO HONOUR, NO EXISTANCE.

And I suggest others ignore you too because my experience from other forums is that people like you only suck the energy from the Kurds. You are a vampire, too.

I have no intention to give blood to these vampires.

I am sure we have real issues to discuss then trying to "convert" a lost Kurd.

We have no time to waste with these people.

I know I have none.

[tomjez]

yeah well I'm just trying to think in the limits of turkish republic, as öcalan does

[piskrt]

yeah well I'm just trying to think in the limits of turkish republic, as öcalan does

Ocalan just flip flops. Nothing more. He says somethings and changes his mind and says something contrary to that.

[Vladimir]

You are talking about HADEP. HADEP got around 30% of the votes in Kurdistan. What they get "over the whole Turkey" means nothing because "Turkey" does not exist.

This proves my case. YOU are a sich nationalist, egoistic kurd. NOTHING more. . Bu people like you are the problem. You should pray forgiveness from the people you terrorized. Your PKK menatlity does not mean nything to me. You are just a sich bastrd like other PKK fans. Go nad kiss APO's ass, I am sure he would welcome your service.

Who is the "bastard"? You are not a Kurd, not even a Turk but a SLAVE OF TURKS.

So not only "Turkey" but also people like you don't exist... You are just a ghost created by the Turkish state... I will ignore you from now on. YOU HAVE NO VALUE, NO HONOUR, NO EXISTANCE.

And I suggest others ignore you too because my experience from other forums is that people like you only suck the energy from the Kurds. You are a vampire, too.

I have no intention to give blood to these vampires.

I am sure we have real issues to discuss then trying to "convert" a lost Kurd.

We have no time to waste with these people.

I know I have none.

He proposes a referendum. His anti-PKK position doesn't matter. He is pretty moderate.

PKK = Not Kurdish, but Öcalan.

I agree with Piling, Tomjez and Lagendijk.