"Turkiye": the reality...

[Diri]

I am so disappointed with Piskrt... And so too with Zurderer...

I agree with Kurd Delal... She is right! I have no time to waste on somebody who has fallen from grace = KURDISHNESS...

I hope that GOD will give you the wisedom to understand how tragic your situation is...

And I don't even blame you for your ignorance. Because Turkey is responsible for your assimilation...

And yet - you stay loyal to the hand that hit you...



Heval - I think I am too upset to think rationally with jash and other morons...

May God cure them of their illness...

[Kurd delal in]

He proposes a referendum. His anti-PKK position doesn't matter. He is pretty moderate.

PKK = Not Kurdish, but Öcalan.

I agree with Piling, Tomjez and Lagendijk.

No bra Vladimir,

One has to look at the whole picture. His attitude, his stance and his entire being is illness in the body of Kurds. He is a virus. His "proposal" is not worthy of notice.

How can you put the entire state-machine on a nation, terrorise them, frighten them to silence and then go to the polls and say "look, you only what this and that percentage, ha ha ha"...

That's what he is doing. I don't take anything he says seriously.

If he is truely proposing a "referandum", he will firstly help to create the political enviorenment free from violance where the true Kurdish colours and aspirations will come through.

Again, not wothy of a comment, but some questions may be asked:

Will the Turks have a say in that "referandum"?

When will that "referandum" be held? tomorrow? in 10 years time? Will the Kurds have the opportunity to express and organise themselves freely in that 10 years time, prior to the "referandum"?

But most importantly, a "referandum" is a compromise WE KURDS are giving to the Turkish state. First they occupy the land, ban the language, in 85 years do everthing in its power to destroy that nation, manipulate the people AND THEN ASK US WHAT WE WANT!! It is stupid to fall for that trick.

Politics is crating the conditions in which people can live freely and happily. The Kurdish vision for the Kurds aim for Kurdish happiness. The Turkish vision for the Kurds do not do that.

I'd rather suggest struggle, mobilisation, organisation and politics and not some poltical games and tricks they themselves suggest for their own winning.

Dirî,

Hêja ez ne jin im, mêr im.

"Kurd delal in" is Kurds are beautiful. The coloniser, in order to maintain its rule and dominance, will tell the colonised that he is weak, ugly and in need of the colonised. We need to tell the Kurds how beautiful they are. AND THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL BECAUSE THEY ARE STRUGGLING FOR FREEDOM.

IT IS THE TURKS THAT AREV SLAVES, NOT THE KURDS. WE ARE STRUGGLING. THE TURKS ARE JUST REPEATING WHAT THE STATE TELLS THEM TO.

[Vladimir]

"The security forces will intervene against the pawns of terrorism, no matter if they are children or women. Everyone should realize that," Anatolian News Agancy quoted Erdogan as telling a meeting of Party leaders in his harshest remarks yet on the Kurdish violence. - He tries to appease Turks nationalists and army

The riots erupted on Tuesday after funeral ceremonies for 14 members of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) killed last weekend by security forces.

Turkish government ministers praised the security forces' handling of the riots, saying they had acted with restraint. They accused the PKK and its supporters of deliberately using children in the protests in order to win sympathy. - True

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L31747355.htm

[heval]

While the Kurdish mayor of Diyarbakir, Osman Baydemir says:

Everyone should act with responsibility and consciously to prevent the ongoing trauma from growing and deepening," and "From now on, there should no longer be any actions."

"I am inviting all citizens to stop their actions and withdraw to their homes," he said. "I am also inviting all security forces not to fire at civilians under any condition."


The PM of Turkey, Erdogan, says:

"If you cry tomorrow, it will be in vain," and "The security forces will intervene against the pawns of terrorism, no matter if they are children or women. Everyone should realise that."

[heval]

no no no

I put blame on PKK, not kurds . And turkish government is stupid in the sense they don't try to bring kurds on their side against PKK by totally democratizing this dusty republic!

it's crazy to think that if turkey would only say "OK for federalism and kurdish language in schools and university", you can be "turkish citizen" and "Kurd" without "being-a-danger-for-the-integrity-of-the-republic"...PKK would be PISSED OFF! because that's what they fear! being useless...

I agree but they have been failing to democratize and the result of that is riots and protests such as these ones. To try and blame the entire tragic episode, which is taking place in Northern Kurdistan on the PKK, is to ignore facts of the entire story.

Yes, you said a month ago that the PKK promised a bloody Newroz. I remember your post. However, you forgot to mention a month ago that Turkey was planning a large strike on guerillas around Newroz. This is an ugly tactic used to psychologically torment Kurds, whether they are PKK-related or not. The same tactics were used by Saddam and his Ba'athists. He would execute a number of Kurds or order strikes on Kurdish rebel targets during the time of Newroz so that Kurds would be mourning instead of celebrating.

You can assume all you want, Tomjez, but it is really hard to prove and pinpoint which party, the rebels or the State, actually had the intention of provoking a riot.

[Vladimir]

I don't think the state wants to provoke rebellions! They have been killing PKK guerilla's for years!! How many were killed this year? Maybe more then 100 and also more then 300 Turkish soldiers.

Everytime Turkish families and PKK-families hold funerals then with their respective "national flags". So in the PKK case never a Kurdish flag.
But anyway, it happens a lot. This is a planned action, because earlier funerals weren't so big as this one.

[heval]

I don't think the state wants to provoke rebellions! They have been killing PKK guerilla's for years!! How many were killed this year? Maybe more then 100 and also more then 300 Turkish soldiers.

Everytime Turkish families and PKK-families hold funerals then with their respective "national flags". So in the PKK case never a Kurdish flag.
But anyway, it happens a lot. This is a planned action, because earlier funerals weren't so big as this one.

Sure, you do not think so but you can be sure that both the politicians in Ankara and the Turkish military heads have been extremely agitated by the democratic progress and increasing support that Osman Baydemir has been able to achieve in the last 6 months. Don't forget that Turkish special units attacked his vehicle when he entered the demonstration to deliver a message of peace. Now, the Turkish Media has been making false news reports blaming Baydemir for the protests, and some reports have gone as far as saying that Baydemir has called the 14 guerillas, his people.

Turkish prosecutors are now probing these Kurdish politicians, such as Osman Baydemir, and have a perfect excuse to do so. How convenient for them. The Turkish government plans things out too, people. You don't have to accept this conspiracy as true, but do not exclude it from being a possibility.

[Vladimir]

Off course they prosecute him. Judicary is highly nationalistic! But they will achieve nothing with it, they are tied to democratic rules, unlike PKK.

Off course not always! I never forgot how the parents of Derwich (Derwish) Ferho were shot dead by village guards and none of the KURDISH media reports about it.

[tomjez]

Heval, we agree: there is a branch of the turkish military who wants to provoke kurds, and a PKK who totally agree with them and want war to break out. They have common interest!

And how is killing guerilla a provocation...I mean if you take arms against a country, you're an ennemy of this country. Even if I hate the army, you must agree that in any country the job of the army is to kill guerrillas if there are any!

Military are as much criminals as the ones who ordered these young kurds to go and fight, while staying in security in south kurdistan.

[Diri]

Dirî,

Hêja ez ne jin im, mêr im.

"Kurd delal in" is Kurds are beautiful.

Bibore, birayê min...

Navê min jî bi rastî "Dîrî" tête nivîsîn... Ema wextê min xwe lêre qeyd kir, ew fikir nehate aqlê min kû ez navê xwe bi Kurdî biniwîsim... Mixabin!

Kurdi delaltir kê heye?!!

[heval]

Heval, we agree: there is a branch of the turkish military who wants to provoke kurds, and a PKK who totally agree with them and want war to break out. They have common interest!

And how is killing guerilla a provocation...I mean if you take arms against a country, you're an ennemy of this country. Even if I hate the army, you must agree that in any country the job of the army is to kill guerrillas if there are any!

Military are as much criminals as the ones who ordered these young kurds to go and fight, while staying in security in south kurdistan.

Well, it is a series of events, not just one. So, planning a huge military strike against guerillas around the time of Newroz, which is essentially what the Turkish military did, should be taken into consideration, as well as the crowds who were provoked during the funerals for the guerillas.

I did not want to mention this before since I do not know how much truth there is to it, and since it has been said in the past without proof BUT... There is a lot of speculation that chemical weapons have been used against those 14 guerillas. If this were to hold true, it would be in violation of the Geneva accords, which ban chemicals against the use of any targets, terrorist or not.

[Diri]

Heval - birayê min...

When did Turkey (in e.g. terrorist state) respect the Geneva convention?

It doesn't even respect civil rights - far less does it respect laws of war...

[Piling]

Geneva Convention is only available between two armies of official states... no guerilla. Not between guerilla nor civil wars. Unjust, but that's a fact.

And as Turkish army never fight any foreign forces (or did I forget something, correct me), only "inner ennemy" since 1923, they had never had the obligation to apply it.

[heval]

Geneva Convention is only available between two armies of official states... no guerilla. Not between guerilla nor civil wars. Unjust, but that's a fact.

And as Turkish army never fight any foreign forces (or did I forget something, correct me), only "inner ennemy" since 1923, they had never had the obligation to apply it.

No, not true.

The Geneva Accords previously only forbade the use of chemical weapons between the armies of two official states. However, with the agreement of the Chemical Weapons Convention, adds additional agreements to the Geneva Accords regarding the production, stockpiling and use of chemical weapons.

So, the agreement stands that a military may not use chemical weapons against any people, whether another state army or insurgents or terrorists.

[Piling]

Ok, I think I made a confusion with the status of War prisonners, then.