Kurdish dervishes in Ûrmiyê

[Welatperist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiogTixjCTQ&mode=related&search=

[Piling]

They are wonderful !

[Amanc]

sorry but i think they are crazy. have seen that some year ago.

[Welatperist]

This radicalism is typical for the islam
That is not kurdish culture !

PS: Ohh Amanc Bra, tû jî werê ji, birayê Zaxoyî

[Piling]

They are not "radical" in the meaning of fanatic. They are just crazy sufis and it is a part of Kurdish culture, Qaderi tariqat are very ancient in Kurdistan.

[Gudea]

I am an atheist (thus not going to defend Islam) but I'm sure that these practices do not belong to Islam. These practises certainly have non-Islamic roots, and probably are very archaic.

[Piling]

These practices began (in islam) since the 12th-13th century, and were spred largely since the 14th century, not really modern inventions... There were innovations of course, but "medieval" innovation. By the way we can find such things in many cultures, and I agree it has archaic roots.

[Gudea]

And probably came from India, did not they?

[Piling]

After mongol invasion, probably. Before ? not sure. If we see Shiites and their violent ceremonies, we could consider it like a human need of self-sacrifice, a sort of psychological support. Some Christians in Spania or in Southern Arsia had some practices like that, trying to re-live the death of Jesus in the same way...

[Gudea]

I have met many dervesh's. they usually wear old and torn clothes. The word 'dervesh' by itself means 'poor', 'someone who has nothing'. We have an expression : ''He is wearing like a dervesh'' => he is wearing ugly and torn clothes...

The guy in 1:52 screams the word Heq, (isn't he?). Heq (haq) means truth and is one of frequently-used names of God among derveshs.

I've heard that when they do these practices they try to think to nothing but God.

..and females have not the right to watch these practices...

[Piling]

A sufi is an ascetic religious, he has no personnal possession (thoug some tariqat are very rich !), and in his appearance expresses his disdain for this world.

The dhkir (recitation of Allah's names) music, dances, meditations, howling, etc had all the same aim : the hal, an ecstasy by which the sufi receives the light of God.

Concerning female's presence, well as they are muslims, most of sema are not mixed. But for the msot modern sufi's brotherhoods especially in Western countries or in Turkey, womem could assist sometimes. And for Qaderi, when they gave some general feasts in all a village, wome, assist also I think. Perhaps Dyaoko could tell more about it.

The external violence of pictures hides the fact that they are very friendly and tolerant. I suppose that after they have wounded them so energetically, they have no energy to harm people. I rather these guys to narrow-minded mollahs or ulemas...

[dyaoko]

in sine , it is not forbiden for women to watch sama, the women themsleves do sama.

[UE_kurdophile]

I was looking for other videos to better understand , when I found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObHb87SSr0E&mode=related&search=&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&hd=1   

At 1st i thought they were serious and thouht "wow! sometimes understanding other cultures is really difficult" then I watched it more and understood.....