I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

[Kulka]

Language nightmare Kulka is back.
after analysis of the post i came to conclusion that i am like great philosopher socrates - "I know that i dont know anything". the most beutiful thing about sorani is that is so much free stylish - whatever you say it might be correct, coz there is no standards. thats good for me, coz if anyone will tell me - kulka you said that wrong. then i say - sorry brother, but its from different dialect, people in small village behind that mountains speak like that - sorted . ok, no joking. i think it would be more safe for me to keep this longer forms, like :

من توم دیت

تو منت دیت

ئێمه تومان دیت

insted of trying to use the short forms, like : دیتمت، دیتمتان... which is also more hard to pronounce. but reffering to your example, "They saw us" - you gave two ways of saying:

dít – man – yan (verb – object – subject) دیتمانیان

dít – yan – man ( verb – subject – object) دیتیانمان

but if both of them means the same - "they saw us" - so how would i say "We saw them" - according to logic it should be exactly the same two ways, so the meaning would be gain from the context only, but for me it seems strange.
and second strange thing - if دیتن is transitive verb - what the pronoun of intransitive verbs ( ن ) is doing here :دیتمن - for "I saw them"?

for my more simple way of speaking is it correct? :

you saw him تۆ ئه‌وت دیت
you saw us تۆ ئێمه‌ت دیت
you saw them تۆ ئه‌وانت دیت

and how to say that for 3 person singular:
he saw me ئه‌و منی دیت
he saw you ئه‌و تۆی دیت
he saw her ئه‌و ئه‌وی دیت

he saw us ئه‌و ئێمه‌ی دیت
he saw you (pl) ئه‌و ئێوه‌ی دیت
he saw them ئه‌و ئه‌وانی دیت

i can imagine how much people can laugh reading that things

ok, enough for today - thank you my dear friend and hopefully see you tomorrow evening - هیوادا‌رم به‌یانی ده‌تبینمه‌وه .
another headache - ده‌تبینمه‌وه .... but this one for next time.

have a great time and take care.
‌

[Emanoelkurdistani]

Since we do not have a standard form of language, you might claim so if someone reproved your accent or dialect.

Yes your mentioned long terms are the wisest choice so far.


Regarding to say "we saw them", here we are:

verb – subject – object > dítyanman

verb – subject – object > dítmanyan

In Soraní script respectively:

دیتیانمان

دیتمانیان

As you see, you are right they are the same as "they saw us". As I told you the first structure is more popular, however still to use your so-called longer forms is advised.

Well the pronoun "-in" is exactly a shortened form of "-an" which itself is derived from "-yan". As I noticed, you mentioned it from your Soraní book so that I wrote it too. As far as I know it is typical of the Southern subdialects such as Khanaqini, Kuti, Ílamí, or Kirmanshani and they are not reckoned as "Soraní" anyways. They comprise Southern Kurdish dialect together (while Soraní is also known as Central Kurdish). For the third person plural in transitive verbs you may only commit "-yan" to your memory:

-یان

Your written forms are all correct:

تو ئه وت دیت : you saw him/her

تو ئێمه ت دیت : you saw us

تو ئه وانت دیت : you saw them

And also:

ئه و منی دیت :he saw me

ئه و تۆی دیت : he saw you

ئه و ئه وی دیت : he saw her

ئه و ئێمه ی دیت : he saw us

ئه و ئێوه ی دیت : he saw you

ئه و ئه وانی دیت : he saw them


For a more convenient form, you may overlook the first pronouns. I mean when you say "ewaní dít" they all understand that it means "he saw them" and to use "ew" in the beginning of the sentence is unnecessary:

تۆم دیت : I saw you

منی دیت : he saw me

ئه وانیان دیت : they saw them

ئێوه ی دیت : he saw you


For "you saw yourself", and totally for "myself", "herself", "himself", "yourselves", "ourselves", "theirselves" you these pronouns must be used:

خۆم : myself

خۆت : yourself

خۆی : herself/himself

خۆمان : ourselves

خۆتان : yourselves

خۆیان : theirselves


Therefore "you saw yourself" is:


تۆ خۆتت دیت : to xotit dít


Or "we saw ourselves":

ئێمه خومانمان دیت : éme xomanman dít


Or "I saw myself":

من خۆمم دیت : I saw myself


However in this case (myself, yourself, etc.) you can miss the subject pronoun, namely if you heard someone is saying these don’t be surprised:

تۆ خۆت دیت : to xot dít : you saw yourself

من خۆم دیت : min xom dít : I saw myself

ئه و خۆی دیت : ew xoy dít : he saw himself

Also:

خۆمان دیت : we saw ourselves

خۆتان دیت : you saw yourselves

خویان دیت : they saw themselves

But it might not be a general phenomenon.


By the way there is another crucial point. All transitive verbs can also serve as intransitive verbs. For example sometimes "you see me" and sometimes "you see" only. In this case, which is very easier than transitive one, you just need to attach the subject pronouns to the end of verb (since there are no more objects):

من دیتم : I saw

تۆ دیتت : you saw

ئه و دیتی : s/he saw

دیتمان : we saw

دیتتان : you saw

دیتیان : they saw


Honestly I have learned what I write to you too. Becuz they belong to Silémaní Soraní which is a little bit bit different from my vernacular. I hope once you outpace me in learning Silémaní Soraní.

I am waiting for the next session.

Take a good care pal. Be happy and fine.

[eg0u61c9]

Just to add a bit of flavor to this hot topic...
Kulka xan the verb بینین has the same meaning as دیتن an used a lot in the Suley region. it might be easier to use and pronounce, its easy for me tho

kak Emanoelkurdistani , if i am not mistaken the verb بینین is more often used than دیتن . Dont know about Halwer and further up

Hope i am not disturbing you guys

[Kulka]

thank you very much my dear brothers. of course kak aram - you are very welcome here, specially as you represten Garmyan, as i remember, so we can compare two territories about the way of using the language. and anyone is wecomed as well.
yes, i noticed that the word بینین is more often used by the people from south kurdistan - thats what my friends at work use. but anyway both بینین and دیتن has the same base, core which is بین if i am not wrong.
i am afraid today i am not able to use my head for language - i think sunday is the nearest possible day, because of my work. and aslo i need to reply one privat message, that is important for me - so you brothers have two days for hard studying and prepare yourself for "fighting" with kulka's small and old brain.

my best wishes for both of you and for anyone who's reading that.

[Emanoelkurdistani]

Just to add a bit of flavor to this hot topic...
Kulka xan the verb بینین has the same meaning as دیتن an used a lot in the Suley region. it might be easier to use and pronounce, its easy for me tho

kak Emanoelkurdistani , if i am not mistaken the verb بینین is more often used than دیتن . Dont know about Halwer and further up

Hope i am not disturbing you guys

As Kulka has already stated, every body's welcomed to spice up this thread.

Yes brother, "bínín" is most frequently used verb for "to see" in the urban dialect of Suleymaní. But I am afraid most Soraní speakers don’t use it. I just exclude the non-general features to gain a more common form of Soraní as possible. I think to learn a common Soraní would be more advantageous in practice. People from Hewlér use "dítin" if I am not mistaken.

سپاس ئه را ئیشاره که د کاکه. سه ر چه وه یلم

[Emanoelkurdistani]

thank you very much my dear brothers. of course kak aram - you are very welcome here, specially as you represten Garmyan, as i remember, so we can compare two territories about the way of using the language. and anyone is wecomed as well.
yes, i noticed that the word بینین is more often used by the people from south kurdistan - thats what my friends at work use. but anyway both بینین and دیتن has the same base, core which is بین if i am not wrong.
i am afraid today i am not able to use my head for language - i think sunday is the nearest possible day, because of my work. and aslo i need to reply one privat message, that is important for me - so you brothers have two days for hard studying and prepare yourself for "fighting" with kulka's small and old brain.

my best wishes for both of you and for anyone who's reading that.

Yes "bínín" is derived from the present stem of "dítin" which is "bín-". By the way as I mentioned in my previous post Soraní speakers generally comprehend "dítin" better than "bínín".

By the way to my knowledge Germíyaní is a sub-dialect of Southern dialect and is very close to that of Ílam and Kirmanshan. Help me kak Aram if I am wrong.

Ok come back on off days. Be happy.

[eg0u61c9]

By the way to my knowledge Germíyaní is a sub-dialect of Southern dialect and is very close to that of Ílam and Kirmanshan. Help me kak Aram if I am wrong.

Ok come back on off days. Be happy.

Well, where i come from is not quite Garmyan. its more Sahrazwr region and our dialect is same as Suley's.... I dont really know if there is any similarity between Garmyan and Kirmanshan dialect. I have met people from both region and love both accent but cant recall the similarity nor the differences.

[Emanoelkurdistani]

By the way to my knowledge Germíyaní is a sub-dialect of Southern dialect and is very close to that of Ílam and Kirmanshan. Help me kak Aram if I am wrong.

Ok come back on off days. Be happy.

Well, where i come from is not quite Garmyan. its more Sahrazwr region and our dialect is same as Suley's.... I dont really know if there is any similarity between Garmyan and Kirmanshan dialect. I have met people from both region and love both accent but cant recall the similarity nor the differences.

I see, yes Sharezorí is pretty close to Suleymaní. Hmm, I am not sure abt Germíyan too but I can affirm Xaneqíní and Kutí subdialects are similar to that of Kirmanshaní. And if I am not mistaken Xaneqín and Germíyan stay next to each other.

[eg0u61c9]

I see, yes Sharezorí is pretty close to Suleymaní. Hmm, I am not sure abt Germíyan too but I can affirm Xaneqíní and Kutí subdialects are similar to that of Kirmanshaní. And if I am not mistaken Xaneqín and Germíyan stay next to each other.

[/quote]

Well Garmyan starts from the town of Kalar to all the way down to Xanaeqien.... Hope i am not wrong but Xanaqien is also Garmyan

I been in Sina and they speak almost like us (suley) not sure about Kirmanshan tho.

[Emanoelkurdistani]

Well Garmyan starts from the town of Kalar to all the way down to Xanaeqien.... Hope i am not wrong but Xanaqien is also Garmyan

I been in Sina and they speak almost like us (suley) not sure about Kirmanshan tho.

I see. I think you are probably right. Therefore Germíyaní is a variation of Southern dialect too. A Feylí accent indeed.

Someone could consider the subdialect of Sine as transitional between those of Hewlér, Sileymaní, Mahabd; and that of Southern dialect (Kirmanshaní, Feylí, Lekí, Gerrusí). But Kirmanshaní is a little bit too far from Sileymaní Kurdish.

[Kulka]

Kak aram - i really have no idea why i connected you with Garmyan .
i was supposed to have my sorani class here today, but the weather was good so i spent my day outside and evening i started to read the blog about kurdistan, that one great kurdish girl is writing and i finished now (if you have a chance i recommend you to read it - http://www.blogger.com/profile/00728195084429597395 ).
i will be back tomorrow - if the weather let me to stay at home, coz if i see sunshine outside the window i cant stay within 4 walls.

[Kulka]

hello, seems like good weather again, so i first do my study, then i will do other things.

By the way there is another crucial point. All transitive verbs can also serve as intransitive verbs. For example sometimes "you see me" and sometimes "you see" only. In this case, which is very easier than transitive one, you just need to attach the subject pronouns to the end of verb (since there are no more objects):

من دیتم : I saw

تۆ دیتت : you saw

ئه و دیتی : s/he saw

دیتمان : we saw

دیتتان : you saw

دیتیان : they saw

thats clear, but as i see its still working like transitive with ( مان، تان، یان ).

it was past tense - how it works for future/present, coz seem like the same for both دیتن بینین . is it?

[eg0u61c9]

Kak aram - i really have no idea why i connected you with Garmyan .
i was supposed to have my sorani class here today, but the weather was good so i spent my day outside and evening i started to read the blog about kurdistan, that one great kurdish girl is writing and i finished now (if you have a chance i recommend you to read it - http://www.blogger.com/profile/00728195084429597395 ).
i will be back tomorrow - if the weather let me to stay at home, coz if i see sunshine outside the window i cant stay within 4 walls.

Why whats wrong with Gramyan dialect...

Besides, i have a Suley accent

[Kulka]

nothing wrong with Garmayna dialect (although i have no idea about details of paricular dialects ) - i only wanted to say that i dont know what i though you are from Garmyan region, but not in bad or good meaning.

[eg0u61c9]

nothing wrong with Garmayna dialect (although i have no idea about details of paricular dialects ) - i only wanted to say that i dont know what i though you are from Garmyan region, but not in bad or good meaning.

oohhhh ok