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I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

Discuss about language(s) in English

Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Tue May 25, 2010 9:51 am

Kulka wrote:Hewleri, Hewleri - kaka - not Sulemani :twisted: - but of course i learn both, coz they are not too much different form each other and its not difficult, i already know some differencies. although i love all kurdistan, but Hewler is the place that is more close to my heart than others - feelings that i cant explain.
all of you are right - its very difficult to be good teacher, but kak Emanoel seems to be the right person in right place - but still any of you, friends, are very welcomed to add your ideas to that course.
honestly - today i am not in very good mood, i feel very bad here, in that country, alone. there are some limits and i feel i have enough. i feel very clearlyt that i am in completly wrong place and wrong reality. but i have no choice, i must stay here untill i will reach my aim. i am listening now to Karwan Nuri - i dont know if you have ever hear his songs. its hot summer evening and i listen to this songs and i feel very strange... its very hard, very sad. and i am scared it will be like that always, that i will never be able to escape from that situation... i would like to see Kurdistan one day. sometimes i am angry that i feel this irrational love for something that i didnt see andc i even didnt know before, sometimes i think it would be more easy for me if i still have no idea about Kurdistan. maybe. but at the other hand - i wouldnt have the reason to live. i want to see Kurdistan. and i miss this boy so much... and i still dont understand why he did that to me
i will do my lesson tomorrow - i cant do today


Thanks for your compliment Kulka :) . Ok Hewlérí but I am afraid Hewlérí is a little bit different while Silémaní is much easier, I don't know maybe it is the way that it seems to me :wink: . And just be sure you are not enduring the worst circumstances on this planet. Every thing will be hunky dory moja siostra it is just a matter of time :) .
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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Tue May 25, 2010 9:55 am

eg0u61c9 wrote:
Seriously Kak Emanoelkurdistani,

I am amazed of how easy and clear you can make it all, I always did well in Kurdish when i was in school but your ability in Kurdish grammar is fab. if you dont mind me asking, where did u finish school and what's your major?

Of course, i am here to help if Kulka or anyone else need it :D


Thanks bro :) . Well I believe every thing is comprised of simple components which as a unique entity might seem complicated to us. I just try to reset them apart thus they would appear as simple as they really are.

I have been studying in Persian throughout my educational life. I am from Iran. You may not believe me but some 6 years ago I had the faintest knowledge abt Kurdish languages and dialects at all, except for my mother tongue "Erdellaní" (Sine). From then on I tried to get right into it on my own. I took it up and soon I realized that I am utterly enchanted by linguistics and studying it has become the first item in my list of diversions. My academic field is Industrial Design however. I wish I could study linguistics abroad.
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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: eg0u61c9 » Tue May 25, 2010 9:46 pm

Thanks bro :) . Well I believe every thing is comprised of simple components which as a unique entity might seem complicated to us. I just try to reset them apart thus they would appear as simple as they really are.

I have been studying in Persian throughout my educational life. I am from Iran. You may not believe me but some 6 years ago I had the faintest knowledge abt Kurdish languages and dialects at all, except for my mother tongue "Erdellaní" (Sine). From then on I tried to get right into it on my own. I took it up and soon I realized that I am utterly enchanted by linguistics and studying it has become the first item in my list of diversions. My academic field is Industrial Design however. I wish I could study linguistics abroad.


Wow, thats fascinating.... i am or used to be very good at the grammar but for that last several years i havent had a look at a single kurdish text book and i guess i have got lots of catching up in this area..

Love the city of Sine, they have very pretty girls :D

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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: Kulka » Wed May 26, 2010 10:33 am

Kak Aram !!! girls are the last thing you are supposed to think of regarding the fact that for few years you havent had a look at single kurdish text book :lol: ! so language first, girls later, basha?
Ok, by the way - i found very interesting pic and i cant stop thinking what the hell is that???? i think its in Sina. anyone knows?
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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: Kulka » Wed May 26, 2010 11:06 am

Back to subject. I would like to see this one for all person singular and plural if kak mamosta doesnt mind:

I came back/again : hatimewe : هاتمه وه

and this one as wel:

I will come back : démewe : دێمه وه

And Mashalla, complicated form for present/future appear to be simple, so i can learn it.

one new thing i was thinking about - when i say to single person - کاتێکی خۆش - how to it say for plural, to more than one person?
and about plural - many times i saw in sorani text that the word which in fact is plural - is written in singular form, for example:
سێ سێو
what is interesting - in the same short text (from the kids book for I class primary school, the text "Sew"), i found both forms - singular and plural. the text looks like that:
ئێستا سێ سێوان به‌رده‌ده‌مه‌وه‌
ئه‌وه‌ سێوێ
ئه‌وه‌ دوو سێو
ئه‌وه‌ سێ سێو

and one more thing i dont know what to think about the form سێوێ - the letter ێ at the end.

zor supas, everybody have a nice day :D
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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: eg0u61c9 » Wed May 26, 2010 11:51 am

Back to subject. I would like to see this one for all person singular and plural if kak mamosta doesnt mind:

I came back/again : hatimewe : هاتمه وه

and this one as wel:

I will come back : démewe : دێمه وه

And Mashalla, complicated form for present/future appear to be simple, so i can learn it.

one new thing i was thinking about - when i say to single person - کاتێکی خۆش - how to it say for plural, to more than one person?


It stays the same as before(کاتێکی خۆش) and if you want to be very precise you can add ( کاتێکی خۆش هاوڕێیان‌)= Have a good day guys

and about plural - many times i saw in sorani text that the word which in fact is plural - is written in singular form, for example:
سێ سێو
what is interesting - in the same short text (from the kids book for I class primary school, the text "Sew"), i found both forms - singular and plural. the text looks like that:
ئێستا سێ سێوان به‌رده‌ده‌مه‌وه‌
ئه‌وه‌ سێوێ
ئه‌وه‌ دوو سێو
ئه‌وه‌ سێ سێو


Kulka, for plural you can use سێو and سێوان . Grammatically سێوان is right but when people talk (slang) they use the original name for plural such as دوو سێو, دوو پرته‌قاڵ etc...


and one more thing i dont know what to think about the form سێوێ - the letter ێ at the end.



To make is easier for you. In singular, use the name and add ێ at the end and when you talk about plural, go back to the original name and just use it.
zor supas, everybody have a nice day :D


You too :D

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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Wed May 26, 2010 4:04 pm

eg0u61c9 wrote:Wow, thats fascinating.... i am or used to be very good at the grammar but for that last several years i havent had a look at a single kurdish text book and i guess i have got lots of catching up in this area..

Love the city of Sine, they have very pretty girls :D


I see it is immaterial, surely you can catch up. I wished other things would grasp your attention :wink: , thanks for the compliment anyway.
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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Wed May 26, 2010 4:16 pm

About your pasted photograph Kulka I have to say that besides its title, "Sanandaj….", the entourage also reminds me of Sine. But sorry since I was born in Tehran and have spent most of my life without there, Sine, so I cannot tell where it exactly is. I even reckon I have not been there, in that specific place, ever.

Before getting back to our course I gotta say a mamosta should never mind questions at all but welcome them in fact :) , ok here you are:

As I already stressed, in case of "-ewe" just add it to the end of your finite forms:

here are the finite (combination of a verb and particular pronouns) ones:

I came : hatim : هاتم
you came : hatít : هاتیت
s/he came : hat : هات
we came : hatín : هاتین
you came : hatin : هاتن
they came : hatin : هاتن

I come : dém : دێم
you come : dít : دیت
s/he comes : dé / dét : دێ / دێت
we come : dín : دین
you come : dén : دێن
they come : dén : دێن

Now if we wanna see how do they work with "-ewe", we are simply gonna need to add it to the end of them:

I came back/again : hatimewe : هاتمه وه
you came back : hatítewe : هاتیته وه
s/he came back : hatewe : هاته وه
we came back : hatínewe : هاتینه وه
you cam back : hatinewe : هاتنه وه
they came back : hatinewe : هاتنه وه

I will come back/again : démewe : دێمه وه
you will come back : dítewe : دیته وه
s/he will come back : détewe : دێته وه
we will come back : dínewe : دینه وه
you will come back : dénewe : دێنه وه
they will come back : dénewe : دێنه وه


As you see it is the easiest part, using "-ewe" :wink: .

Yes as I told you the complicated form for present/future is really easy to learn :) .

Well Kak Aram has already explained it but I would like to add a few things to his words. I am not really sure abt its common usage in Western Soraní but the expression "katékí xosh" (کاتێکی خۆش) could be used for both singular and plural persons since it literally means "good time". So we could use similar expressions regardless of singularity or plurality of our audience "rojh bash" ~ "good day", "éware bash" ~ "good evening", "shew bash" ~ "good night". But as far as I know to discern singular from plural, in this case you could carry it on so:

have a good time (sing.) : katékí xosh bo to : کاتێکی خۆش بۆ تۆ
have a good time (plur.) : katékí xosh bo éwe : کاتێکی خۆش بۆ ئێوه

Abt using singular form for originally plural nouns, Kak Aram is right the correct usage is, as it still is retained in Northern Kurdish (Kurmanjí), to mark them as plurals however people often use them as singular:

I saw two apples : du séwanim dít : دوو سێوانم دیت
I saw two apples : du séwim dít : دوو سێوم دیت

And regarding to "-é" "ێ", it has the same grammatical usage as English "a"/"an", but in Kurdish it attaches to the end of noun as opposed to English:

an apple : séwé : سێوێ

a name : nawé : ناوێ

But its accurate form is "-ék" and is exactly derived from Kurdish number for one "yek" > "ék". Also in Northern Kurdish (Kurmanjí) they mostly use "ék" for "one":

a cat : kitikék : کتکێک

a hat : kilawék : کلاوێک

You may use both "-é" and "-ék" but, if I am not mistaken, when the next word is starting by a vowel then you can only use "-ék":

an apple and a carrot : séwék u gézeré : سێوێک و گێزه رێ

a name and an address : nawék u nawníshané : ناوێک و ناونیشانێ

You can also use "yek" like other cardinal numbers before the noun, like English "one":

one apple : yek séw : یه ک سێو

one name : yek naw : یه ک ناو

However you cannot use both "one" and "a/an" at the same time in English, but in Soraní they might occasionally use them simultaneously to emphasize on the noun. So do not get surprised if you noticed such a usage:

I have done such a work that you will not believe it
yek karékim kirdúwe ke birway pé nakey
یه ک کارێکم کردووه که بروای پێ ناکه ی


Do not mention it siostra :) . I am waiting for the next session as eagerly as always. Also try to ask as much as you can for the next session becuz after replying it I may be away for a while. Be fine :) .
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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: Kulka » Wed May 26, 2010 8:42 pm

MY LOVELY BOYS - YOU BOTH ARE GREAT! thank you very much - its completly clear for me and i get it perfectly. by the way - i dont know where was my brain that i forget the letter "e" at the end is a short form from "ek" - of course i knew it, i just lost it in my memory! three days of work is waiting for me now - so i dont know about my lessons, but tomorrow at break time i will try to prepare questions to ask in the evening when i will be back from work.
the last sentence :
یه ک کارێکم کردووه که بروای پێ ناکه ی

its perfect to say to my supervisor kak Maher :lol: - i am going to use it!

so nobody know what is in the pic. i call it "stairs leading to nowhere". but why not ? in Kurdistan we have everything - even stairs to nowhere :D

have a brilliant night brothers
kak Aram - have great dreams about girls from Sine :twisted:
kak Eman - have great dreams about anything you like :D

very very much zor supas!
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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Thu May 27, 2010 10:33 am

I am glad that the given examples are useful in practice :wink: ok dear Kulka thanks you too :)
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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: Kulka » Thu May 27, 2010 9:17 pm

hello my dear brothers,

today short topic - i need to know as much as possible about interesting word ویستن , specially past tense, as i know a bit about present/future.

funny thing - i started to write one question about the expression "to remember" - but during my writting i realize that i dont have to ask, coz i understood it myself - sometimes my brain is going for a walk, but sooner or later coming back and some things are sorted out automatically.

wishing you all great night.

by the way - about "to remember" and "to forget" we will discuss one day as well, coz its also interesting matter.
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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: Emanoelkurdistani » Fri May 28, 2010 7:51 am

Fro sure "wístin" ~ "to want" is one of those particular points that every Soraní learner should know abt, since it is a specific verb. First of all you should know that its root (used in present tense) is "ew-" (I do not wanna describe it in full becuz therefore you would be a little bit confused just remember it as "ew-" "ئه و"). The only pronoun that would attach to its end is the third person singular's "-é" / "-ét" "ێ" / "ێت". So in order to conjugate it we have to put the subject pronouns between durative maker "e-" / "de-" "ئه" / "ده" and verb "ew-" (present tense) / "wíst-" (past tense). That is to say "I want" would be "de-m-ewé". So it is the general rule for "wístin" ~ "to want":

for present tense:

durative maker + subject pronoun + ewé

for past tense:

durative maker + subject pronoun + wíst


So here are its conjugations for both present and past tenses:

I want : demewé : ده مه وێ
you want : detewé : ده ته وێ
s/he wants : deyewé : ده یه وێ
we want : demanewé : ده مانه وێ
you want : detanewé : ده تانه وێ
they want : deyanewé : ده یانه وێ

I wanted : demewíst : ده مه ویست
you wanted : detewíst : ده ته ویست
s/he wanted : deyewíst : ده یه ویست
we wanted : demanewíst : ده مانه ویست
you wanted : detanewíst : ده تانه ویست
they wanted : deyanewíst : ده یانه ویست

I have to confess that this verb doesn't exist in my local subdialect (Erdellaní) at all. Eastern Soraní as well as Southern and Northern Kurdish use "xwastin" / "hwastin" / "hestin" / "xwestin" for "to want", which are regular verbs of course (same as the others). So I think it calls for the native Western Sorani speakers to correct me in case of mistake.

When you wanna put an object into your combination then you have to replace subject pronoun, which is already placed between "de-" and "-ewé", and attach it to the end of object pronoun just like transitive forms. Thus "de-" and "ewé" will be linked to each other and form "dewé" at last. But in this case there is a difference, the object pronoun should be original one namely "min / to / ew / éme / éwe / ewan; whilst the subject pronoun is oblique "-im / -it / -í / -man / -tan / yan. For example "I want it" ~ "ew-im dewé". Here is the general rule:

object pronoun + subject pronoun dewé

Here are some examples with object:

I want her : ewim dewé : ئه وم ده وێ
you want this : emit dewé : ئه مت ده وێ
she wants him : ewi dewé : ئه وی ده وێ
we want a friend : hewalékman dewé : هه والێکمان ده وێ
you want them : ewantan dewé : ئه وانتان ده وێ
they want a house : malékyan dewé : مالێکیان ده وێ
I wanted an apple : séwékim dewíst : سێوێکم ده ویست
you wanted us : émet dewíst : ئێمه ت ده ویست
he wanted a horse : espékí dewíst : ئه سپێکی ده ویست

I hope native speakers would help me with probable incorrections :) .

be fine.
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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: Kulka » Sun May 30, 2010 10:54 pm

چۆنن

sorry that i was absent for few days, its because of my work.

as mamosta Eman mentioned that he is not sure about the word "wistin", i asked one slemani friend at work and he said that "i wanted" should look like that:

ده‌م ویست

i didnt asked about the rest. so now i am waiting for mamosta Aram to know what he thinks about it. the rest are clear for me. But one more thing is the imperative form and so called subjunctive form of that verb.

next question is - what is the difference between پاش , له‌ پاشا , پاشان . Maybe i am wrong, but seems for me like "pash" is for singular and "pashan" for plural. is it? and what about the third form - له‌ پاشا ?

i wish good night to all
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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: eg0u61c9 » Mon May 31, 2010 3:45 pm

So here are its conjugations for both present and past tenses:

I want : demewé : ده مه وێ
you want : detewé : ده ته وێ
s/he wants : deyewé : ده یه وێ
we want : demanewé : ده مانه وێ
you want : detanewé : ده تانه وێ
they want : deyanewé : ده یانه وێ



The text above are all correct, however, if you are writing an academic report, you need to add letter ت at the end of the verb to be more grammatically correct such as;
I want: ده مه وێت
you want: ده ته وێت etc


I wanted : demewíst : ده مه ویست
you wanted : detewíst : ده ته ویست
s/he wanted : deyewíst : ده یه ویست
we wanted : demanewíst : ده مانه ویست
you wanted : detanewíst : ده تانه ویست
they wanted : deyanewíst : ده یانه ویست

I have to confess that this verb doesn't exist in my local subdialect (Erdellaní) at all. Eastern Soraní as well as Southern and Northern Kurdish use "xwastin" / "hwastin" / "hestin" / "xwestin" for "to want", which are regular verbs of course (same as the others). So I think it calls for the native Western Sorani speakers to correct me in case of mistake.


As Kulka has mentioned in her last post, for the past tense we use the verb ویستن in the following way;


I wanted : demwíst : ده م ویست
you wanted : detwíst : ده ت ویست
s/he wanted : deyewíst : ده ی ویست
we wanted : demanwíst : ده مان ویست
you wanted : detanwíst : ده تان ویست
they wanted : deyanwíst : ده یان ویست

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Re: I NEED YOUR HELP SISTERS

PostAuthor: eg0u61c9 » Mon May 31, 2010 4:10 pm

چۆنن

sorry that i was absent for few days, its because of my work.

as mamosta Eman mentioned that he is not sure about the word "wistin", i asked one slemani friend at work and he said that "i wanted" should look like that:

ده‌م ویست

i didnt asked about the rest. so now i am waiting for mamosta Aram to know what he thinks about it. the rest are clear for me. But one more thing is the imperative form and so called subjunctive form of that verb.


I think i have answered you in the previous post :D
next question is - what is the difference between پاش , له‌ پاشا , پاشان . Maybe i am wrong, but seems for me like "pash" is for singular and "pashan" for plural. is it? and what about the third form - له‌ پاشا ?


Kulka, in my own little dictionary :D there is not any difference for پاش in singular, plural, past and present such as:

Past tense (singular and plural)

i went after the game: من پاش یاریه که ڕۆشتم or پاش یاریه که ڕۆشتم
We went after the game: ئێمه پاش یاریه که ڕۆشتین or پاش یاریه که ڕۆشتین
They went after the game: ئه وان پاش یاریه که ڕۆشتن


Present tense

i go after the game: من پاش یاریه که ده ۆڕم or پاش یاریه که ده ۆڕم
We go after the game: ئێمه پاش یاریه که ده ۆڕین or پاش یاریه که ده ۆڕین
They go after the game: ئه وان پاش یاریه که ده ۆڕن

پاشان is not used frequently, so if i were you, i would remove it from my head :D

Also there is not difference between پاش and له‌ پاش different areas of kurdistan use پاش or له‌ پاش in the exact way i explained earlier :)
Hope i dont mislead you and i am realizing now that kurdish is very complicated... ohh God, its tiring 8)

i wish good night to all


You too, dziekuje :D

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