Women - Feminism and Integrity

[Diri]

Let me just say that Turkish is the only language in the world that can be called an "ARABIC DIALECT"... They have more Arabic words then they need... If you remove the Kurdish and Arabic words from Turkish you will sitt and call everybody "Han" AND "Hanim" while other words such as ben, sen, siz and "o" will jump into your mind... And nothing more... Thatt is all...

[kurdistani]

Let me just say that Turkish is the only language in the world that can be called an "ARABIC DIALECT"... They have more Arabic words then they need... If you remove the Kurdish and Arabic words from Turkish you will sitt and call everybody "Han" AND "Hanim" while other words such as ben, sen, siz and "o" will jump into your mind... And nothing more... Thatt is all...

One point.... Insulting everyting turkish is not the way forwards...

[kassem]

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[Diri]

DON'T BE STUPID! You two are MANIPULATING MY WORDS!


Arrogant fools - I have a right to state MY oppinion - and my assessments are NOT to be taken as insults... YOU are the people who make those Turks not like Kurds - EVEN TURKS KNOW THEIR LANGAUGA IS VERY NOT TURKISH - Don't you think FOR ONE second that I know what I am talking about? I have family in Turkey - They tell me that in school they learn what IS and what is NIT a Turkish word - and evidently words ending with an "a" etc. are Arabic loanwords... So don't come here with the BS about - Oh my GOD he is so offending Turks - Go and figure - I have my sources - and they are reliable...

If Turks are offended by this then NO WONDER TURKEY KILLS PEOPLE WHEN THEY MENTION THE NAME "KURDISTAN"...

It has nothing to do with honour - Girls are VERY FREE in Kurdistan to do as they please... WHERE I COME FROM! And my oppinion IS MY OPPINION - DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO THINK ABOUT GIRLS... KASSEM YOU ARE THE LAST TO SPEAK - YOU INSULT AND DEGRADE EVERY GIRL WITH YOUR POST AND LINKS TO EROTIC PISTURES OF GIRLS!

[kassem]

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[Diri]

Please spare me for your limited vocabulary... You put a LINK to a picture of a girl - so to say naked - so don't come her and say that you didn't - others have seen it too

[kassem]

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[kassem]

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[Diri]

I splitt the discussion - because we have moved on from language to FEMALE POSITION IN THE WORLD...


Anyway - to answer your comment Kassem...

http://www.santabanta.com/wallpapers/ra ... tid=614101

here's the picture I put up, and I'm putting it up again. tell me where you see porn or erotic pictures in that? and how is it so-called "degrading" or "insulting" to women?

I think this is one of those pictures that aims at making sexual appeal... And these types of pictures are degrading in MY OPPINION... To take pictures such as this one is totally meaningless - unless you wanna SELL an object... yeah - sure call it commercializing and what have you...

The bottomline is - I think - that the female gender has become subject to a NEW form of oppression in the West... In the East women are oppressed by forcing them to hide in Manto/Hejab/Chadir and what have you - while in the West the women are sex objects... And NON of the two work out...

There should be respect for the huan body and not least the female body... Our body is sacred and most holy of all to us - our souls are captive in these bodies - so any molesting of either physical or psychological will be damaging to both the soul and the body...

No culture on Earth has IN MY oppinion a better understanding of respect and integrity than the Kurdish culture - I am now seing things from a very ego-sentric point of view (For those who don't know what that means in terms of social science it mean: To judge things only by comparing them to your own cultural standards and norms - which is the opposite of Ethno-sentric -meaning judging by the standards of THAT culture and by their own norms!).

I am not talking about the fanatics and not the liberals - I am talking about Kurdish culture - which has been preserved by the Eshiret's... I do know that some of you are against the Eshiret and think that they are a form of feudalism - but then I suggest you go and read what the expression and term "Feudalism" means... Because Eshiret does not come close to feudalism - writting from experience...

[kassem]

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[Delal]

As a student of Turkish Linguistics (not a Turk, not a supporter of Turks, but someone who only studies their language-I need to make that clear lest someone accuse me of supporting something that I don't) it is unfair to say that Turkish is not Turkish but more Arabic.

First of all, they come from completely different language trees and have a completely different linguistic history. Turkish is from the turkic/altaic language branch and Arabic is a semitic language.

Now the subject of loan words is very different. There is a lot of carry-over words from Arabic, but that is strictly from the Islamic influence into the culture. The same can be said for Persian which also has a lot of Arabic carry-over words, but Persian and Arabic are also from different language families and no one here would say that they are the same by any means.

It is untrue that all words in Turkish that end with an "a" is an Arabic word. I can think of no root words in Turkish that end with an "a", however, "a" does appear at the end of a lot of Turkish words, but it is only as a grammarical marker.

[Diri]

I think a woman like that is 10 times more happy than a woman who hides herself underneath a hejab - but that is just my opinion. you have a different one, obviously, so we're not gonna agree. you talk about so-called "oppression" in the west, the difference is, in the west the girls are free to dress as they please and do everything as they please. they're not forced to dress like that, they do what they want.

and just because a girl shows her skin, doesn't mean that she doesn't have self-respect. I suggest you open your mind a little, and stop judging people by the way they look.

>I advice you to read my comment just ONE more time... Just for the hell of it - maybe you will see my points clearly?

I WROTE:

The bottomline is - I think - that the female gender has become subject to a NEW form of oppression in the West... In the East women are oppressed by forcing them to hide in Manto/Hejab/Chadir and what have you - while in the West the women are sex objects... And NON of the two work out...

No which part of this says: I don't want girls to wear what they wanna wear?
They can wear what they wanna wear - MY POINT was - that if they WEAR NOTHING or close to NOTGHING - they will be OBJECTS and not humans...

The male gender can be VERY disguisting - it is a mans world - and women are treatened by men... In the west the wear what they like - but to what expense? Being insulted and degraded because they don't have the "perfect body" and being shouted at by sick stupic boys "Hey baby" "Wanna suck me baby"... and these comments come from the MEN - and you are gonna say - "Hey it's the mens fault" - YES it is - but unless you change the men's mentality it won't serve your cause...

What I AM SAYING IS: Women must wear what they wanna wear - they should HOWEVER keep a DECENT dress code- JUST like MEN SHOULD... I do not make gender differences - what applies to girls applies to boys...

And no - Hijab or other UNKURDISH solutions are not a choice - they are forced... But if somebody want's to wear the hijab - let them... My point has and will be: DECENCY! INTEGRITY! & RESPECT!

[kassem]

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[Delal]

This forum is so frustrating!

This began at what could have been an interesting discussion about Languages and then one person freaks over a response and starts accusing someone of something COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND and then a fight ensues....CAN WE STICK THE TO SUBJECTS WE START PLEASE!!!!

If you want to bicker and fight with someone just come straight out with it unstead of pretending that you really want to discuss something sanely.

[Diri]

I do not make gender differences - what applies to girls applies to boys...

who are you trying to fool? do you see men wearing mini skirts or thongs anyways...?

Hello? I said - I don't make gender differences... THE WEST DOES- and you are proving my point... Why doesn't a man wear a thong? Don't tell me it wouldn't suit them... That is YOUR oppinion in that case... The truth is that you are perhaps too young and naiv to see the realities on the ground... Please - Have your oppinion - and I was just as stubborn as you in that age (yes even ONE year age difference can make a great difference between two persons)... I was so liberal about those matters that I would have been killed for my oppinions in Saudi Arabia!

But - hey - a woman and a man can wear what they want to... But don't be surprised when you are turning heads or being insulted etc...

My point has and will be: DECENCY! INTEGRITY! & RESPECT!

again, who are you to judge that a girl doesn't have decency, integrity and respect just because of the way she dresses? this is so narrow-minded.

I am not "judging" - the "code of decency" is a clear and visible norm in Western and Eastern societies... You wouldn't for example sit with a MINI MINI skirt and spread your legs apart when sitting in a meeting with the bosses and other employees... WOULD YOU?(Pretend you are a girl if you don't usually wear skirts as a boy)

What do you think I am? Some sort of Bin Laden??? I hate the oppression of women - but decency has NOTHING and I repeat NOTHING to do with not giving them "right"... What I am talking about are NORMS - do you know what a norm is? That is "unwritten rules"... What is expected of you by society... I don't think your father would allow your sister out the door wearing nothing but a bikini on any given day of the year... Would he?


DELAL - This discussion is about Women's rights/Feminism and Integrity... The discussion you are talking about is still in the Language Room... As moderator I split the two discussions from eachother - as you would have known had you read the posts... Please go to the "LANGUAGE ROOM" for the discussion about Kurdî---->