Leyla Zana in Armenia :)

[Dilsad]

Hi everyone,

I was reading some of the postings on Armenia, and like in all our topics, we have som much to say that sometime it goes in another direction...
That's why I chose that title Leyla Zana in Armenia 's topic

Before getting to Leyla Zaana, I just want to say that Armenians have all rights to come and bring the genocide in front of our noses, and unlike what some of you may think, the kurds didn't just bad things for others (I read that on of of the postings), we are like every other nation on earth, we do we did and we will do VERY VERY VERY bad things.
And our history of victims does not and should not excuse it...ifnot we may wake up like Israel and occupying and opressing others (waow, this is sure not gonna go well with some of you).

Now, there is a difference between Forgetting and Forgiving; I sure hope that Armenians will forgive us but they should NEVER forget!

BACK to Leyla ZANA:
I was a very young person when I had the chance and privilege to meet her on one of her tour to the european union parlement, right before she was put in jail.
And someone asked her, Please stay here, they are going to put you in jail!

this is what that extraordinary woman said:
"I know, but I need to go back, even in a turkish Jail, I can do more good and more work than free in Europe!"

I was amazed by her answer and how calm she was, keep in mind that this is soemone that knew very well what Turkish jail meant, her husband spent years in Jail!

So for those that think she is a sale out, think twice. She is a skilled politician and even though she may do thinks that may seem "weird" to you or to me too, she may simply be in the same position where she thinks that"
As a Kurdish-Turk I may do much more than as a separetist kurd...
She'd rather go to that Jail since she knows she can do much more work than if she was free ...

DilSaD

[Nistiman]

I wouldn't question her courage, bravery, sacrifice or that she sincerely believes she is acting in the best interest of the kurdish people.

Maybe that is all that is needed for her to earn our respect and admiration.

[Diri]

Hmmm... well I agree that this woman is paramount in NEW Kurdish history... but what HAS she achived except for her fame? She has with HER fame made the Kurdish question in MANY circles and political organizations as well as non political org's. But that was before... What has she done the last weeks, months or even years? She has gone kissed the hand of APO's sister... whish seems quite odd - what is APO's sister for Kurds? What does she represent? Is she a spiritual monolith which transcends APO's charisma and guidance for the Kurdsh people?

Furthermore - Leyla Zana - a person who today doesn't fight for ANY thing with the words "Kurd" and "Kurdistan" - what DOES she want to struggle for? The right to get a decent job? Or maybe the right to be educated? Or maybe even the right to say what you think???
But just pause for one second and think about what this GREAT Kurdish woman has achived for the Kurdish nation BEFORE... and compare it to what ROUT she is on now... where is she taking her directions from? Is she heading for a federal structure for Turkey? Or does she want to be a part of "Turkish Kurds"---> which in mny circles equals traitor....

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As for Armenia - Even Armenia knows that it was under TURKISH lead that Kurds were sent to war against the "infidels"... this was propaganda set out by the Turks... Do not think that Kurd have been a GREAT part of the genocide - they were the PAWNS used by the Turks for their own gain - and they were FEW--- So the blame rests only on a few of the tribes that were acting along Turkish lines... not on the Kurdish nation.. NEVER on the Kurdish nation... We can ask for forgiveness for THEIR deeds - but we have not ALL been part of the massacres...

[Dilsad]

Hi there!

On Leyla Zana's case, I hope you don't think that I only swear by her and find her to be the best person on earth, believe me, I don't think there is oneperson on earth that I could come and say:
God, she/he is great! and she/he has no work to do, ...just pure perfection!
She is heading in a path that even if I may disagree with , still is working for the kurdish cause.
Unlike Apo, Barzani or Talabani, she has no reason to do politic just for politics, she doesn't need followers for her living.

On the Armenian question, please stop being apologistic (hey I found a way to say APO....I am soooooooo pro APO that I use his name everywhere )
So please stop being apologistic for our ancestors. In the same way than APO, according to one of you posting, killed 1000 gerila (which wouldn't surprise me), why wouldn't our Agha ancestor kill Armenian? Hey they are not muslim so we can do it?
And regardless if it was 10000kurds or 1000 kurds helping the turks for the turks, they still participated!

This is like saying that Germany as a country shouldn't ask for forgivness, becasue god damn it, it was only the Nazi that participated in the killing...

DilsAd.

[Dilsad]

Also,

on your last point, I totally agree with you,
we can ask for their forgivness and we have not all participated in the genocide.
All I am asking is to be sensitive to it, and that we should of course not feel guilty for generations to come, but feel ok that some of our ancestors were bad...we need not to romanticize our history too much...ifnot, and I know I am going to not please some people, ifnot, we may end up like Israel where as soon as they got to Palestine, they did some pretty pretty bad things!

I hope you see my point bira.

[berxwedan]

Dilshad:

Armenians are much more forgiving than Assyrian/Syrians/Chaldeans. (Actually, they are less Christian fundamentalistic.)

I don't know why. I've never done any research on that...

But, we could speculate. Armenians are aryans just like Kurds and have lived in a peaceful symbiotic relationship with Kurds since thousands of years (common heritage). Assyrians are semitic and have been more of a "border nation" and the relationship was not very symbiotic. They had an earlier clash with Kurds which they don't forget: The destruction of the Assyrian Empire in 612BC, by Medes and Babylonians (can somebody confirm Scythians and Persians added to that list?) They are VERY sensitive about that issue too. They tend to see the Assyrian Empire as victims of an invasion. Even though historians from every branch tell us that the Assyrian Empire was basically equal to the Nazi Third Reich and they lived, not in a symbiotic, but parasitic relationship with other people's in the region.

Other people's were their slaves and did the "proletarian" work, so that the Assyrians could maintain higher standards. Hey, that's where we got the story of Kawa Hesinkar.

[Diri]

I am afraid you are mistaking... Armenians are NOT Arian...
The Armenians are not linked to ANY people... just like the Greek... Which have no "start" either... And no - It was the Median and Babylonians ALONE who defeated Assyria and Zahak/Dahak...

Anyway - that was not the discussion here... We are talking about Leyla Zana - right

[Delal]

My opinion on Leyla Zana's inportance to the Kurdish cause is that she tried to work within the Turkish legal system to advocate for Kurdish rights there, rather than circumventing the system and acting with violence.

Violence in Turkey and the Kurdish situation there has not been that effective for those living there...just her actions of trying to find a diplomatic solution should be noted and appreicated.

Politically, I don't think that it was wise for her to be seen in public with Apo's family, that will just get her put back into a Turkish jail cell again...on the other hand, it does show her willingness to face challenges in the name of the Kurdish cause.

If you read about her early life, she has proven herself to be an extraordinaryily strong woman. Has anyone else read her book: Letter from Prison? She draws a wonderful protrait of how the Kurdish language fits into the wider world culture of language by comparing it to being a wildflower in a garden. A garden full of roses is boring, but a garden full of all varities of flowers is much more pleasing to look at.

[heval]

Regarding what Leyla Zana has been doing in the last few months... While I was in Diyarbakir last month, I had the priviledge of meeting her in what was one of the major highlights of my trip. Her words were very touching but I was even more impressed by her clear thinking and discussed plans. I don't want to get into what she told us because our meeting wasn't a public one but I am hopeful that she will have a bigger role in Kurdish politics within Turkey in the near future.

I think we just need to give her some time to organize and we need not be so judgemental because her release from jail was not that long ago.

[Delal]

Well said! I completely agree.

[Dilsad]

I agree with what you said heval,

in the same way that some people on this forum think/have said/argued that Barzani and Talabani have some secret plans, they/we should give Leyla Zana the time and space to grow and bring to fruit her plans...

D.

[Diri]

Let's see what happens...