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Welcome To Roj Bash Kurdistan 

"Screw us one more time.../Hit us baby one more time...

A place for discussion and exchanging ideas about Kurdistan issues here, also a place for sharing article & views and analysis about Kurdistan .

Do you think the Kurds will be screwed for a billionth time - this time in Iraq...?

Sure-----> We must carry on the tradition...
0
No votes
No way - it seems our leaders in Southern Kurdistan are doing a good job!
2
33%
Hahahaha - WHO KNOWS... Rather we not screw up one more time... But who knows...
2
33%
Our leaders in Southern Kurdistan are doing a bad job - GET A GRIP PEOPLE!
2
33%
 
Total votes : 6

"Screw us one more time.../Hit us baby one more time...

PostAuthor: Diri » Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:51 pm

How Screwed Are the Kurds?
Anatomy of a sellout.
By Timothy Noah
Posted Monday, March 3, 2003, at 4:20 PM PT


For Kurds, getting screwed is a tradition. Great Britain, France, and Italy screwed the Kurds in 1920 when the Treaty of Sèvres divvied up the Ottoman Empire without making a firm commitment to create a Kurdish state. Modern Turkey screwed the Kurds in 1923 by ignoring what faint assurances had been made at Sèvres and putting down a Kurdish rebellion and, subsequently, by suppressing Kurdish language and culture. (Kurdish rebellions were also put down by Iraq in 1923 and 1932.) Iran screwed the Kurds in 1947 by wiping out the nascent Soviet-backed Kurdish republic of Mahabad; screwed them again in 1975 when it ended a brief alliance with the Kurds against their common enemy, Iraq; and screwed them a third time in 1979 when the newly installed Ayatollah Khomeini cracked down on an autonomous Kurdish enclave in Iran. Iraq screwed the Kurds by failing to abide by a 1970 agreement to grant them autonomy; screwed them again by driving Kurds across the border into Iran in 1974 and 1991; and screwed them a third time—actually "screwed" doesn't really cover it—by gassing the town of Halabja in 1988. This last is the incident President Bush frequently refers to when he says, in justifying war with Iraq, that Saddam Hussein "gassed his own people."

Now the United States is poised to screw the Kurds one more time.


In securing agreement to move U.S. troops through Turkey for an Iraqi invasion, the U.S. government has agreed to pay a bribe of up to $30 billion and has also made certain bargains that it isn't eager to spell out. ("I don't have the details of the agreement," a State Department spokesman told the press on Feb. 25.) The bargains affect vital security concerns for the Kurds in Iraq, who since the establishment of the post-Gulf War no-fly zone have enjoyed autonomy from Saddam Hussein and have nurtured precisely the sort of democratic institutions that the United States wants to introduce throughout the Arab world. This Kurdish enclave lies in northern Iraq, bordering Turkey. The Turkish government fears that Kurds who live on Turkey's southern border, who are already in rebellion, will want to join it.

The U.S.-Turkish bargains are on hold for the moment, because the Turkish parliament failed to ratify the U.S. agreement. But the cash register is still open, and there's talk about taking a second vote. Before any such vote occurs, let's consider how thoroughly the U.S. government plans to sell out the Kurds.

In the Feb. 27 Washington Post, Philip P. Pan and Daniel Williams report that the United States has agreed to let up to 40,000 Turkish troops into northern Iraq (this according to a Turkish government official). According to Owen Matthews and Babak Dehghanpisheh in Newsweek, that's a low-ball. They put the number of troops the United States will allow into northern Iraq at 80,000 and say that the Turks may be allowed to proceed as many as 270 kilometers into Iraq, which is "nearly the whole of Iraqi Kurdistan." Reportedly, another part of the U.S. agreement with Turkey is to disarm Kurdish troops when the war against Iraq is over.

The Turks say their only interest is to secure a buffer zone to control the flow of refugees and protect the area's Turkmen minority. Nobody believes this, least of all the Kurds, who are convinced the move would block formal establishment of an autonomous Kurdistan state within the newly liberated Iraq (by agreement with the United States, the Kurds have renounced any claim to full independence from Iraq). The end result of a war fought partly to avenge Saddam's gassing of the Kurds would be to rob the Kurds of what little autonomy they enjoy today. They'd be worse off than they are now.

In screwing the Kurds, the U.S. government would also be screwing itself. That's because a Turkish occupation of northern Iraq will likely prompt Iran to send in troops to defend its own interests. (Indeed, Borzou Daragahi of the Associated Press reports that some Iranian troops are there already.) Even assuming, then, that the war against Iraq goes entirely smoothly, the United States could easily become embroiled in a second war between the Kurds, the Turks, and the Iranians.

Add it all up, and Turkey's refusal to admit U.S. troops onto its soil starts to look like a very lucky break. The Pentagon says it can fight Iraq without going through Turkey, but that it will be more difficult. But selling out the Kurds would not only be immoral, but dangerous for the United States. If this war can't be fought another way, it isn't worth fighting at all.


Timothy Noah writes "Chatterbox" for Slate.


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PostAuthor: doopaman » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:20 pm

The Kurdish administration has to be on good terms with it neighbor countries because U.S. will withdraw troops from Iraq and every body is well aware of that. :(

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PostAuthor: Diri » Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:27 pm

Hmmm... I am not sure I agree... The US would in ANY case have a military base in Kurdistan - Kirkuk and perhaps one in Hewlêr...

And the MOST reasonable thing would be for them to be as you say doopaman -
The Kurdish administration has to be on good terms with it neighbor countries


But I think it is EVEN more imperative that they OPENLY support the Kurds in those countries... There is a saying that "Kurds are at their best when in-stability is on their side" :lol:

I nkind of agree to that - look - whenever things are stabil there is NO mention of Kurds -and then when they cause opposition and take action they are heard from here to Mars... :wink:
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PostAuthor: doopaman » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:25 pm

If the U.S. does that all thos jihdis will be accusing the Kurds of collaboration with the infidels. Right now the extremis are mainly in sunni triangle & spread out, the withdraw from the rest of Iraq & having military base only in Kurdistan will probably make matter wrost all thos terrorist will be focus on Kurdistan.

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PostAuthor: Diri » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:33 pm

Do you really think they will stand a chance when Kurdish Pêshmergas stop any suspicious Arabs - and latly (sadly) also Kurds... The Us forces in Kurdistan would be a treath to not only the terrorists- but also the neighbouring countries... ESPECIALLY IRAN AND SYRIA :lol: !

And IF the US decides to do so - don't you think the CIA, FBI etc will have full overview of activities in Kurdistan and that eventual terror acts will be prevented...?? I doubt that this withdrawal ever happenes... But it would have been "pretty cool"... :lol:

That would send a message to Iran, Syria and Turkey - that they MUST face the new realities - Kurdistan is the US's best pal :wink:
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PostAuthor: Delal » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:03 pm

I find it interesting that you are debating a commentary on a news item that is from the beginning of the Iraq war (2003?/2004?) as it mentions the 30 billion that Turkey demanding but never got.

Even with the latest news in relation to the United States calling for the removal of PKK forces we must realize that while this might seem to be in favor of Turkish forces entering into Northern Iraq/Southern Kurdistan, the United States will not allow it....they will however encourage the Peshmurga to take out the PKK elements because the Peshmurga are going to be much more loyal the US's goals of getting rid of those who it views as terrorists than it the Turkish forces would be to the goals of the United States. The only loyalty that the Turkish government would feel towards the US would be the money and arms that the US provides them.

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PostAuthor: Diri » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:38 pm

Well Delal - it was a GOOD article... And that is why we are commenting it - also because HISTORY repeats itself...

I agree - the US would never exchange Kurdish loyalty for a wepon deal with Turkey or any of the likes... And the US has a much grander plan in mind - they want to overthrow the Iranian and Syrian goverments too...

What will be interesting is - if Turkey violates the agreement - which is very likely - they act upon such nobelty all the time... I HOPE they enter South Kurdistan - the damn Turkish government will lose ALL it's relations with the US... Georgia and Armenia are the new Turkey for the US :wink:
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PostAuthor: Kurdish Freedom Fighters » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:14 pm

america will screw us again as always!

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PostAuthor: Dilsad » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:31 pm

The US will screw us again...
Back at the beginning of the war, the US was trying to have a coup against saddam by some of his top general or muxabarat. Why? Becasue they don't care about democracy in the region.
They would trade the kurds for a stable iraq lead by a single sunni or non-extremist shia like Chalabi.

So why wouldn't they do it again?

But hey, at the end, like the saying, "we'll still have our mountains" ;)

What we need to do, is to ask for the maximum, the most extreme close to independance (this is I think the kurdish politician are now doing), and then bargain it down to what we were hoping for.
Some kurdish politician apparently brought a map of what we ALL want the south of Kurdistan to look like to the Constitutional Comitee...hope they'll stick to their guns! And demand it til the end.


Dilsad.

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PostAuthor: Diri » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:38 pm

Yeah - I read that news too - VERY interesting... And it is a BRAVE thing to do actually... Yes, it is - Because they are giving a rats ass about what the US thinks - and they are acting on their own! That is great...

Dilshad - I am sure you have spent much time in the Kurdish mountains :lol: But they aren't the only part we want... We want the areas of Dicle/Tigris too that are Kurdish - think back - Salaheddin was born in Tikrit - what used to be Kurdish... I am not demanding it now though - because another idiot came from the same town :P

According to the news about the MAP - the Kurdish alliance had agreed to NOT accept any compromise...

You know who I am MOST angry at? DAMN SHIA-ALLIANCE...
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PostAuthor: Dilsad » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:52 pm

I agree with you! It doesn't happen often ;) does it?
But my comment about the mountain was of course sarcastic :)
It is a saying, i heard over and over,
"we have no friends but the mountains..."

TO come back to the MAP, I think it is great! That is how smart politics are done. I mean look at the sunnis delegation, they according to the comitee rules, don't have the right to vote and we hear more about them boycotting the process than about the kurds.

Serkeftin!
D...

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PostAuthor: Diri » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:04 am

AMEN!

May GOD always be on the Kurds side! MAY GOD BLESS KURDISTAN!(I can't help myself - everybody else is saying it so :lol: :lol: :lol: )


Big brother US is a badboy we need to watchout for... He would use us if we let him... But he will be our friend as long as we give him reason to not be our enemy! Or should I say - as long as we don't give him reason to be our enemy! Because these TERRORIST KURDS - they are really mizing things up and the Ansar-al-islam is the worst nightmare Kurds could have... Even Norwegians know what it is - and that gives us a REALY bad image... Islamic terrorist Kurds... :roll:


Lets go back to the MAP - This one is a good example of how things should be :arrow: :

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But this one is VERY CORRECT - politically, socially and culturally...

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NINEVEH FOR ASHÛR NOW! :lol:
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PostAuthor: Emmunah » Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:43 am

Let me rephrase this....I don't think that the US will be ABLE to screw the Kurds. The Kurdish leaders and the people have just done too good a job at negotiations, at being a safe haven, and also at getting along. Kurds come out looking like angels and now have the army to back it up from the south and the mountain protection from the other sides.
Never look down on somebody unless you are helping them up.

You grow up the day you have your first real laugh.... at yourself.
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PostAuthor: Dilsad » Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:07 am

Hi Emmunah,

I understand what you are saying, but believe me, if the bush administration wants to make the kurds look bad, they CAN:
a-they pretty much control the media in the US and on something like that, US public opinion is not gonna give a sh...
b-access to journalist in iraq and kurdistan is VERY limited...so they can make the kurds look like tyrants...

As for the army, mhm...the truth is that the peshmerga CAN't fight the US army or the turkish army or any other army with heavy equipement in a conventional confrontation. THe only way would be using urban warfare and gerila tactics.

That alone could discourage the US...however, once the iraqi army is on its feet...they can go ahead and burn villages, and town...the US can aalways come out and say that they have no power over a souveraign country...

With that said, i agree with you, the kurdish politicians have done so far a good job in negotiations....let's hope they keep up the good work :)

D...

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PostAuthor: Diri » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:17 am

I do agree my dear friends... :lol: :lol: :lol:


Barzanî and Telebanî are TOO smart for the US to discourage them... They have without the support of the US (probably against it's interest - as they want to see the constitution finished before 15 August...) put up a new hurdle :lol:


There is only this far a horse the size of Iraq can jumpe hurdles... Soon - ALL OF US - will witness something greater than great... Iraq will be fractioned - unless they accepet the terms of the Kurds!

FEEL THE FURY OF A THOUSAND YEARS, O-OPRESSORS!
Last edited by Diri on Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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