Demonstration of all independent minded people

[Armenian]

If youy can't see what bullshit I'm talking about, go learn some English. You can see Wester Armenia with you eyes all you want, but if a person is an idiot like yourself, does it really matter?

[kurdistani]

Just one point...
In the days before modern maps and measurements the terms Kurdistan and Armenia were used to talk about the same area... before the genocide of Armenians... the two groups, Kurds and Armenians live close to eachother and were completely mixed up together... However, it is important to not by the late 19th century Armenians numbered about 900,000 in Anatolia... they did not constituted a majority in any Viyat but were dominant in Sasson and in Ezerum they were the largest pularity... A general rule seems to be that the furthernorth you went the more dominant Armenians were....
Prior to the 19th century... Kurdistan and Armenia where geographical-ethnographical terms... However,,,, they did not imply political states... Only after 1877-8 did the Ottomans try to get rid of the term Armenia... (they feared that Aremnia migth go the way of Serbia or Bulgaria) ironically the Ottomans prefered the use of Kurdistan becasue it was Islamic sounding....

[tomjez]

go and learn some english...that's true I only speak breton, french, english german and turkish. I have a lot to learn from a monomaniac cunt. You don't have the singlest argument except "go and make some research". What research are you talking about? Some biased websites stating that Diyarbakir and Trabzon were Armenian Cities? As Kurdistani said Armenian were not alone in western armenia. They were not only in Armenia anyway. You'll probably say that he is telling bullshit, because everybody who disagrees with your fucking racist nationalism must be. You don't even realize how alone you are in your counter-genocide dreams: you know more staying in L.A than me travelling in the country you want to empty and annex to another country you never went to and probably never will. Very deep inside you perfectly know you are telling bullshit, juste like a KKK guy speaking of white america. It just makes you full of hate and lost in bloody fantasms.
I appreciated talking with you when you were trying to have an articulated argumentation. Now that you see you can't be right, you're just falling down to trash speaking. I can be trash in much more languages than you can (1?), but why would I be.
I'm sorry I really can you could get history lessons, from me or another. The worst of that is that you're not even fighting with a guy saying "there were no armenian genocide"!!!!! But you're a level higher than common disaspora weirdo, I must say I never saw that in my life.
Well don't lose time insulting me, cause it's the only thing you will have to say and I'm not sure it will be much relevant.

[Armenian]

I already gave up on you little buddy. It's interesting how much you don't know about my history, yet you speak as if you are an Armenian history proffesor. It is not worth to argue with you any further. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

[tomjez]

Honestly YOU must be turkish. Same brainwashing

[Armenian]

Shut the hell up. You are going too far there.

[tomjez]

So what you gonna do, put me on the black list of ASALA? I say you look turkish because when you see that you're stupide racist argument don't work, you use insult and vulgarity, then violence....that's really Grey wolf methods when you think about it

[Armenian]

So what you gonna do, put me on the black list of ASALA?

There is no ASALA anymore.

I say you look turkish because when you see that you're stupide racist argument don't work, ythat's really Grey wolf methods when you think about it

I didn't know you could see me. Racist arguments? Yes I might be racist againts some turks. I'm not going to deny it.



[/quote]you use insult and vulgarity, then violence....[quote]

What the hell are you talking about? I use violence?

You are the one who uses the Grey Wolf method by being a total IDIOTIC MORON. Get a life man.

[Heja]

Tomjez says:

"Concerning Annexion of western turkey by Greece: Hum, they tried, Atatürk kicked their asses..."

So what? Greeks lost a war, but occupying the land which isnot yours isnot gonna make it "your land". Turks are living on lands which isnot theirs. Look at Cyprus, today French president Jacques Chirac told the turks that they have to recognize Cyprus. ( which means military withdrawal as well). Turks have occupied cyprus for nearly 500 years, but still it isnot their land and they have to leave, the sooner the better.

The same thing goes for Izmir (Smyrna). It will never be turkish, because it is occupied, and the greeks are just waiting for the right moment to take back all of their lost lands. This isnot a joke! I have lots of Greek friends and they have told me that greeks have never recognized turkish rule over their occupied territories.

So, The military conquest of Ataturk isnot gonna make things justified.
[ Arabs, then mongoles once occupied all of middle-east, but then they were forced to retreat.]

You need to take a trip ( a few days) out of turkey, travel around ( greece, bulgaria, cyprus, crimea ,...) to see that the inhabitants of those areas, have never forgotten the brutalities of turks.

[Heja]

Kermanshah IS 100% populated by Kurds - they are half half Shia and Sunni - but KURDS... Adana and Mersin MAY BE majority Kurdish by population but we have no HISTORICAL claim to them and we have no NEED for them - besides it is very "un reasonable" because that is contradictive to your "lets be reasonable" - as we would have to take land that isn't Kurdistan... Iskenderûn is enough for Kurdistan - and Osmaniye - our two ports cities in the West...

Have you ever been there? Have you ever had friends from Kirmashan?

I have. And the sad reality is that the forced suppression of the kurdish language( Southern kurdish dialects) by racist persians over the last 70 years, have had a deep effect on the people, especially shiite kurds living there. Many of them don't speak in kurdish anymore, I mean mothers talk in persian to their children and it's been like this for at least 30 years.

In most ethno-linguistic maps, kirmashan is located just on the border between persians and kurds, despite the undeniable kurdistani identity of this city. ( as you correctly pointed out)

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_e ... n_2004.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_e ... e_2002.jpg

Of course this assimilation process hasnot happened to all of the residents of the city, especially those who have migrated from the surrounding towns and villages. In addition to this, there are many persians living there, brought to the city by the government to solidify perisan control over the city, just the way they did in Wurme (Urumiye)( where the state is supporting turkish settlers against kurdish people).
I can say Southern kurdish is still alive in half of the city, and surrounding areas like Kerend, Shah-abad ( Islam-abad), Gilan-e-gharb, Qesri Shirin, ... . Many of those towns are "Yarsan", not "muslim", which is the ancient religion of kurds, wrongly labelled as "Ali-o-llahi" by the persians just to discredit it.

"Yarsan" people have a special "holy book" for themselves, which is written in kurdish, perhaps the oldest ( and the only) kurdish sacred book.

As for "Iskenderun", I think you are making a mistake, this is an arab city claimed by syria, and inhabitants are arabs.

"After the First World War the Sanjak of Alexandretta became part of the French Mandate territory, but Turkey demanded its return as the area was ethnically divided between Turks, Sunni Arabs, and large numbers of Alawites." http://www.answers.com/topic/iskenderun

If you look at this map http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_e ... ish_86.jpg, you will see that the small southern part of turkey, on the mediterranean
north-west of syria, isnot majority kurdish, Iskenderun is located in that area ( Alexandretta, or "Hatay" as turks call it). It is populated by arabs.
http://www.europe-atlas.com/turkey-map.htm
But just north of Hatay, you see a big chunk of red, somewhere between Gaziantep and Adana. (just north-east of Adana).
About Osmaniye, I agree.
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_e ... _pol83.jpg

In addition, I don't think this map http://www.kurdishacademy.org/maps/map-02.html is that correct, since it shows Hamadan ( a mixed turkish-persian city) on the border of kurdish region, while Hamadan is surrounded by turkish villages.
On the other hand it shows "Ilam" as persian which isnot true, if you have met "Ilami" people. They all speak in Southern kurdish, very close to Xaneqin dialect.

This map, I think is a bit better; (with the same mistaek about Ilam)
http://www.kurdishacademy.org/maps/map-04.html

If you have more info., please let me know.

[Diri]

I am from East Kurdistan (Urmiye) - as are other here - and Heval is from Hewreman - and Dyaoko is from Sinne - ask them - what have they heard about Hemedan? Because my parents tell me that the villages surrounding Hemedan are inhabited by Kurds - Soranî and Lakî and Goranî speaking... It is a big city and capital of the Med empire and consequently the Kurds... We therefore not only have historical claims to it but also by population - and political as it has been victim of forced assimilation and forced deportantion and mass migration TO the city by Ajams...