Killings in Paris : 2 persons in custody

[Piling]

2 persons described by Police like 'acquaintances of the victims' are in custody (means that they are not yet charged but possible suspect). 2 men, 31 and 39, born in Turkey, one the former driver of a victim, living in Northern Paris.

So the hypothesis of internal fight or at least double agent is perhaps strengthened. Police just said that they have already interrogated one of them and some elements are incoherent.

[Anthea]

2 persons described by Police like 'acquaintances of the victims' are in custody (means that they are not yet charged but possible suspect). 2 men, 31 and 39, born in Turkey, one the former driver of a victim, living in Northern Paris.

So the hypothesis of internal fight or at least double agent is perhaps strengthened. Police just said that they have already interrogated one of them and some elements are incoherent.

Thank you VERY interesting PLEASE continue to keep us informed

Acquaintances could mean jealous boyfriend. Could mean anything. It always struck me as odd that if these people went to the office intending to kill the ladies, then why was only one of them carrying a gun?

[Piling]

The custody of these 2 persons has been extended.

In french law, it means that these ppl are arrested and in detention, but for the moment are only suspected and interrogated. In such case of terrorism or organized gang crime, police has the right to keep a suspect in detention no more than 96 hours. Then, the judge decides if the suspect should be released or charged.

In such case, it means that the policemen and the judge did not believe at 100% that the guys are absolutely innocent. It means also that the suspects have not confessed anything.

Also they could be suspected to have lied or hidden some informations (in a such clandestine movement, not a surprise). So they would be charged like accomplices, not like murderers.

I precise that in France this judge (that we call 'juge d'instruction') decides after investigations if a suspect can be charged or not. He is a sort of prosecutor but his job ends at the starting of the trial. If these 2 guys go to the court, they will face other judges.

[Anthea]

Thank you VERY interesting - not the same as English law

[Piling]

No, the French justice is very different from England. In fact i am not a specialist but I rather the rule of Habeas Corpus than our inquisitorial system.

[Anthea]

Do you have an update on the 2 men being held?

[Piling]

They are probably sleeping like the policemen and the judge. And tomorrow is sunday

We might have news monday or tuesday.

[Anthea]

They are probably sleeping like the policemen and the judge. And tomorrow is sunday

We might have news monday or tuesday.

I wonder if they were picked up just because one of them was close to one of the victims? Police do tend to question those with the closest connections first.

[Piling]

NEWS CENTER (DIHA) - Police sources confirmed two men remain in custody. Two men who were arrested on Thursday at midday in the investigation on the murder of three Kurdish activists in Paris January 9, will be kept under arrest.

Two men who were arrested on Thursday at midday in the investigation on the murder of three Kurdish activists in Paris January 9, will be kept under arrest. According to reports police custody were extended on Saturday. At the end of their detention, which can last up to 96 hours, the two men could be brought before a judge, according to the evidence gathered by investigators.

The two men are said to be Kurds born in Turkey in 1974 and 1982. According to AFP which was quoting an anonymous police source, belong to the close environment of the three women executed. According to the police source quoted by AFP, the investigation is following a "serious lead." One person in custody was said to be the driver of one of these women, the source said.

The two men, who are domiciled in La Courneuve, a suburb north of Paris, were placed in custody at midday on Thursday, the source said. No specific judicial source has been given as to the reasons for these arrests, nor on the potential role of the two men.

(nt)

[Anthea]

What the report appears to say is that they are holding two men, one of whom was known to the victims. No more no less.

While the police have been investigating the lives of these three ladies, they will have also been investigating the political side of their activities. The fact is that at this moment in time we have NO real idea as to the actual reason these men are being held.

[Piling]

I have read elsewhere that there were some contradictions in their testimonies. But they can also lie or hide things in relation with PKK activities and not because of the murders. One of them was Cansiz's driver.Hard to answer to a policeman : 'I can't tell it, Sir ! Professional secret, do u understand ?'

[talsor]

Any kurd with connection to PKK is guilty by default considering that they will never be able to talk or disclose anything about the organization and their activities . The way the justice system works , you can charge them with anything and they will be found guilty .

One of the victims was a prominent PKK figure and she most certainly under 24 hour surveillance , but it is much easier to arrest Kurds and find them guilty than bringing the actual perpetrator to justice .

[Piling]

Watch is not protection. When a refugee is protected by State, like General Aoun, Shahpur Bakhtyar (and Iranian services were smarter at the end), it means that the protected people are permanently followed by body guards (who belongs to French services), that all their visitors have to show they have no weapon, to tell who they are etc. It means also that you can't move without permission of State agents. Ask to Salman Rushdie how he spent 10 years of his 'protected' life.

Being protected by a State needs to stop any political activities (especially clandestine). Sakine Cansiz did not ask to French State to protect her (she did not ask to be watched, btw). Even if some agent stood out of the building and saw some people enter, what could he do ? The CIK received visitors all the time. It was its function.

Perhaps PKK should question itself about its own system of protection ? Are their important members protected by their own body guards or not ?

[talsor]

Watch is not protection. When a refugee is protected by State, like General Aoun, Shahpur Bakhtyar (and Iranian services were smarter at the end), it means that the protected people are permanently followed by body guards (who belongs to French services), that all their visitors have to show they have no weapon, to tell who they are etc. It means also that you can't move without permission of State agents. Ask to Salman Rushdie how he spent 10 years of his 'protected' life.

Being protected by a State needs to stop any political activities (especially clandestine). Sakine Cansiz did not ask to French State to protect her (she did not ask to be watched, btw). Even if some agent stood out of the building and saw some people enter, what could he do ? The CIK received visitors all the time. It was its function.

Perhaps PKK should question itself about its own system of protection ? Are their important members protected by their own body guards or not ?

You misunderstood .

considering that Sakine Cansiz was under constant surveillance , this case should be a slam dunk unless the French intelligence is implicitly involved in the crime . You certainly understand what it means to be under surveillance by a government like France .Sakine Cansiz was an important Kurdish political(terrorist) figure in Europe and you are over simplifying the matter here when you talk about one agent watching her while having a Cafe . The idea or notion that some rogue organization within PKK is responsible for such meticulous work is laughable .

The western media in general indirectly blamed PKK from the first day and went on and on and on and on (as you did too) about PKK's internal disputes without a beep about turkey(among other countries) and their possible involvement .

It should not be hard to arrest a couple of PKK members in Europe and prove their involvement in the assassination with minimum circumstantial evidence and no one will even question the validity of the evidence , because after all , PKK is considered terrorist organization and everything is possible when it come to terrorists right ? .

[burnsss]

Terrorist Turkey says french intellegience belives kurds are behind the murders but everyone knows its turkish racist state behind. How would Turkish media get in contact with french intellegience? its all a game of diving pkk to contunie their genocide against kurds with Nato blessing..