Killings in Paris : 2 persons in custody

[Piling]

I don't know what all Western media say but in French media, Syria and Iran are highly suspected (it is not the first time they operate in France) with 'possible internal complicities'. Which political movement could be sure to not be infiltrated ?

Arresting these 2 guys does not means that they are the murderers (accomplices ?) just that they might know things and do not tell. Since the first day, policemen say that the victims probably knew their killers or at least opened willingly to them. So it is normal that they seek some elements of truth in their acquaintances, especially if such people has contradictions or incoherences in their stories.


And I repeat that, temporary custody in French law does not mean they are guilty, but that they might be suspected or charged. Or that they might be threatened by others, or influenced by others, or that they could run away from France. As people like you, HPG, PKK, BDP tell all the time that France is accountable if police don't find quickly the murderers, you can not reproach them to be zealous on its arrests and interrogations:

In their investigation, if police never suspect relatives, friends, colleagues, neighbors, 80% of crimes would never be resolved.Even in cases of child's murder, family is questioned. And sadly, it is often wisdom.

[talsor]

Terrorist Turkey says french intellegience belives kurds are behind the murders but everyone knows its turkish racist state behind. How would Turkish media get in contact with french intellegience? its all a game of diving pkk to contunie their genocide against kurds with Nato blessing..

That is what bother me the most and they are actually trying to benefit politically from the death of our comrades . Having a good relation with fascist regimes like turkey and Saddam at the time is more precious than Kurdish blood . The west and Israel are actively participating in Killing and oppressing the Kurds , so the idea that they will seek justice for such crime is a Joke .

If the victims were turks , the finger would have pointed to PKK immediately and you would have seen hundreds of arrests among PKK members . I'm not a fan of PKK , but i'm Just tired of Kurd being constantly victimized over and over .

[Piling]

They never said it is PKK, sure, we found the murderers, all is ok. They say it might bean internal fight or Turkish fascists or Iran or Syria, or mafia because war troubles their drug traffic. All of these tracks are hypothetic.

In the other hand, it not as if PKK has NEVER killed opponents. There is also the possibility of double agents. In 90s, Turkish embassy has sometimes approached PKK members for assassinations. Iran and Syria could have done the same,

[Piling]

Last news unfortunately in French) but you can use google translator :

– They found DNA but incomplete
– 10 bullets, but a single killer is still possible.
– The 2 suspects are still in custody.

http://www.lejdd.fr/Societe/Faits-diver ... ADN-587163

[talsor]

They never said it is PKK, sure, we found the murderers, all is ok. They say it might bean internal fight or Turkish fascists or Iran or Syria, or mafia because war troubles their drug traffic. All of these tracks are hypothetic.

In the other hand, it not as if PKK has NEVER killed opponents. There is also the possibility of double agents. In 90s, Turkish embassy has sometimes approached PKK members for assassinations. Iran and Syria could have done the same,

Again my dear , you distorting the facts Perhaps unintentionally . PKK as a Kurdish organization would never approach Turkey to assassinate their own members and makes absolutely no sense . Those within PKK who worked as double agents or worked directly for Turks were certainly targeted and in some cases assassinated , but this is not the case here nor it is the topic of discussion. Individuals with possible link or association to PKK ao not represent PKK .

Three Kurdish girls were assassinated in cold blood by the enemies of Kurds and linking their death to PKK , mafia , drug traffic is unfounded and disrespectful to their memories .

[Piling]

Three Kurdish girls were assassinated in cold blood by the enemies of Kurds and linking their death to PKK , mafia , drug traffic is unfounded and disrespectful to their memories .

ok. So no investigation, police closed the case, no one is interrogated, 'just for respect' : no guilty, no trial, no truth. Flowers and candles, on the graves, only. Is that you want ? I suppose the murderers wish the same.

[Piling]

http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/1083567 ... nteressant


One of the suspect is 'interesting' according to the police. Could be also a 'private' crime. Now he will see a 'juge d'instruction' for deeper investigation.

It means that police confirms he is a suspect. Then the judge has to decide if he could be charged or not.

[talsor]

Three Kurdish girls were assassinated in cold blood by the enemies of Kurds and linking their death to PKK , mafia , drug traffic is unfounded and disrespectful to their memories .

ok. So no investigation, police closed the case, no one is interrogated, 'just for respect' : no guilty, no trial, no truth. Flowers and candles, on the graves, only. Is that you want ? I suppose the murderers wish the same.

Honestly no , because the entire process is politically motivated and the so called Kurdish suspects will be found guilty with minimum circumstantial evidence to further demonize PKK and Kurds . It is becoming a pattern that PKK is guilty by default and even when PKK is the victim , they are still used as an escape goat which is really shameful .

[Anthea]

Hurriyet Daily News

Suspect detained in Paris killings released

One of two suspects that were detained last week in connection with the killing of three Kurdish women in Paris was released today.

The other suspect remains in custody.

French police detained two suspects, aged 39 and 31, on Jan. 17 in connection with the killings, French daily Le Parisien reported Jan. 18. The suspects are reportedly residents of the Courneuve district and were born in Turkey.

Reports of gun powder residue found on one of the men’s coat surfaced earlier today amid claims that one of the suspects had a 46-minute gap in his testimony.

Reports failed to identify who was the suspect that was released, or whether he was the one with the reported gun powder residue.

The three women gunned down on Jan. 9 in Paris were killed as the result of an internal conflict in the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), the French intelligence agency has claimed.

The three women were killed in an execution-style attack as a new round of peace talks was launched between the Turkish government and Abdullah Öcalan, the imprisoned leader of the PKK.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/suspec ... sCatID=338

[Anthea]

erDOGan is the person who keeps stating that the terrible killing are due to an internal feud within the PKK. A as his son-in-law controls much of the media in Turkey, this theory is receiving widespread coverage both within Turkey and elsewhere

[Piling]

I have a better paper. AKP and PKK are agree to say that France killed

Amid widespread speculation surrounding the execution-style assassination of Sakine Cansız, a top financier for the terrorist Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) in Europe, along with two other PKK militants in Paris, the claim that a foreign country might be behind the killings has gained more attention than any other theory explaining the motives for the incident.
The theory was further boosted this week when another high-profile PKK asset who had been procuring weapons for the terrorist organization was killed by sniper-fire in Moscow. The fact that both the Paris and Moscow murders were committed professionally give further credence to claims that an unspecified country is trying to clean up key operatives within the PKK to cover up the footprints of its dirty dealings.

The killings occurred in the middle of a fresh round of talks which the Turkish government has acknowledged it is pursuing with the jailed leader of the PKK in order to pave the way for the disarmament of the organization. It was believed that the killings were aimed at derailing the peace talks launched by Turkey. Analysts say Iran, Russia, France or some other European country may very well fit the suspect profile in these killings even though their intelligence agencies may have contracted the killings to some groups within the PKK.

“This [Cansız’s killing] looks like a hit that was done by the PKK itself. But the hit was ordered by an intelligence organization of an unknown country,” said one security official who requested that his name be withheld because of the sensitivity of the issue.

“If a terrorist organization commits murders in the middle of Europe, it is definitely tied to a state intelligence organization,” he explained in an interview with Sunday’s Zaman.

France is home to the PKK network in Europe and has sheltered high-profile PKK leaders in its territory despite pressure from Turkey in its extradition demands. The French government has simply turned a blind eye to PKK activities of raising funds in the country and allowed PKK operatives to move freely within and beyond its borders.

In a recent interview with Today’s Zaman, Turkish Interior Minister İdris Naim Şahin stated that France had not extradited a single PKK suspect sought by Turkey through Interpol Red Notices in the last 20 years. He accused France and other European countries of hiding behind legal excuses so as not to hand over PKK suspects.

Turkish dailies reported this week that French security forces arrested 144 PKK suspects wanted in Turkey for terrorist crimes but have never turned them over. On top of that, some PKK suspects were given political asylum by French authorities. Cansız was allowed to operate a fundraising network for the PKK in Paris under the watch of French security agencies. Despite ongoing legal cases in French courts investigating the PKK’s money exchanges in France, she was not touched.

According to US diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks in 2010, Cansız was identified as a PKK financier and a weapons and tactical strategist. In a diplomatic cable sent on Dec. 7, 2007, then-US Ambassador to Turkey Ross Wilson conveyed his recommendations to Washington for redoubling their efforts to shut down the financial support that flows from Europe to the PKK, whose main base is located in northern Iraq.

Wilson wrote: “We should more sharply focus our work with the Europeans. Previous demarches sensitized the EU to PKK criminal activities. Now we need to narrow our focus by identifying and going after the two top targets of Riza Altun and Sakine Cansiz. Given their previous arrests, cases against them have been started. We can help by providing the most extensive dossiers possible and coordinating with law enforcement and intelligence counterparts in Europe to ensure these two terrorists are incarcerated.”

Germany was also an accomplice of France in failing to turn over Cansız to Turkey. When she was arrested in Germany in 2007 pursuant to an Interpol extradition request issued by Turkey, she was let go after a brief detention by German authorities citing insufficient evidence forwarded by the Turkish government. She was allowed to return to France, where she continued to run the financial operations for the terrorist organization.

“On the one hand, you recognize the PKK as a terrorist organization but you have never turned over any suspect linked with the PKK to Turkey. That does not make any sense,” Onur Öymen, a former ambassador, told Sunday’s Zaman, adding that France has a very bad record of dealing with PKK terrorists operating on its soil.

“Though you claim that you are fighting against terrorists in locations as far away as Mali, you don’t do anything to deal with the PKK terrorists in your own country,” he complained about the hypocritical French position on the fight against terrorism.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has lambasted the French government for allowing PKK terrorists to operate in France. “We had sent a notice to French Interpol two months ago [before Cansız’s murder] and informed them that she is in Paris. But France did not take any steps,” he stated last week. Erdoğan also called on French President François Hollande to explain why he had met with one of the three Kurdish militants.

Hollande had said he had known one of the killed Kurdish women and was meeting with her regularly. “How can you routinely meet with members of an organization labeled a terrorist group by the European Union and being sought by Interpol? What kind of politics is this?” Erdoğan asked.

Russia is another suspect

The French intelligence is not only suspect in the high-profile PKK killings. The murder of a Kurdish arms dealer in Moscow, Aslan Usayan, also known as Ded Hasan, who was believed to be a supplier for the PKK, on Wednesday, less than a week after the three PKK militants were killed in an office in Paris, fueled speculations that the Russian spy agency may also be behind these killings.

According to Russian journalist Sergey Kanev, 76-year-old mafia leader Usayan played an important role in the transfer of arms from Russia to the PKK. On the basis of police documents which Kanev claimed to have obtained, another Russian gang leader of Kurdish origin, Zahariy Kalashov, nicknamed Şakro, is the leading player in Russia in the sale of weapons to the PKK. Both Kalashov, who is serving time in a Spanish prison, and Usayan have relations with PKK leaders.

Russia does not recognize the PKK as a terrorist organization despite growing ties with Turkey at a strategic level. Turkey has raised the PKK issue during bilateral talks with Russia in the past but failed to secure a strong commitment from Moscow. Intelligence reports indicate some 80 percent of the arms that the PKK uses are made in Russia. Moscow is by far the largest source of sniper rifles used by the PKK as well as in the supply of anti-tank mines and rocket launchers. Eighty-eight percent of the mines and 85 percent of the launchers used by the PKK were of Russian origin.

This does not, of course, mean that the Russian government is directly providing arms to the PKK because arms dealers may very well be using the black market to supply the PKK through routes cutting across Armenia and Iran. Abdullah Öcalan, the imprisoned leader of the PKK, went to Russia twice after leaving Syria in 1999 to seek refuge in the country. There were speculations that a PKK training camp had existed close to the Russian capital during the Cold War. The uncooperative attitude in Moscow against PKK militants in Russia does not help to dispel allegations that Russia may still be involved in supporting the PKK terrorist organization against Turkey.

Bayram Bozyel, the deputy chairman of the pro-Kurdish Rights and Freedoms Party (HAK-PAR), told Sunday’s Zaman that there might be clean-up operations going on within the PKK by deep structures now that there is a strong resolve in Turkey to solve this Kurdish problem. “Some might be settling scores within the PKK in order to prevent a fallout from the dirty dealings of the past,” he underlined.

Iran’s dirty dealings with PKK

Bozyel believes that the French authorities will cover up the murders in Paris if the revelations might damage French national interests. Looking at the way these murders happened in a building on busy Rue Lafayette behind the Gare du Nord, one of the main train stations in Paris, there is no doubt that a professional organization is involved in the killings. Analysts point out that both Cansız in Paris and Usayan in Moscow knew too much and were linked to many high-profile people from different governments. They suspect that by taking out these people, the culprits were trying to erase the footprints of shady dealings with the PKK.

Iran is another suspect in the case and was publicly identified as the contractor of the killings by the political wing of the PKK, the Peace and Democracy Party (BDP). BDP Deputy Chairperson Gülten Kışanak said on Wednesday that Iran might be behind the Paris killings. Recalling that Iranian intelligence had been responsible for some assassinations in Europe in the past, Kışanak said that when the murders are solved, she expects the authorities to shed light on Iran’s role. Ahmet Türk of the BDP also implicated Iran as a suspect in the case earlier.

İbrahim Güçlü, a Kurdish intellectual, emphasized that Iran is strongly against the resolution of the Kurdish problem in Turkey. “Tehran wants to hold on to its PKK card for its efforts to try and destabilize Turkey. I believe that the PKK commanders in the Kandil Mountains in northern Iraq have a secret agreement with Iran to keep fighting against Turkey,” he explained in an interview with Sunday’s Zaman.

“Iran perfectly fits the suspect profile in the Paris killings because it does not want the new process to be successful in Turkey,” he added. The Turkish government has publicly accused Tehran of sheltering PKK militants and providing the terrorist organization with logistical and financial support.

Of course, there are some other countries that may very well fit the suspect profile. As the talks with the PKK leader continue, any future revelations on the PKK’s links with foreign intelligence networks will shed more light on the dirty dealings of the terrorist organization. And the real culprit in the last two incidents will surely try to eliminate other key PKK members to further cast a cloud on the PKK network. In the meantime, the Turkish government’s negotiations with the PKK will be put to the test time and time again.

http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_g ... sId=304528

[Anthea]

News FLASH: Omer Guney killed the 3 Kurdish ladies. He says no. Camera recordings say yes.

[Anthea]

Paris'te öldürülen 3 kadının soruşturulmasına ilişkin açıklama yapan Paris Cumhuriyet Savcısı François Molins, cinayetlerle ilgili gözaltına alınan Ömer Güney isimli şahsın ''baş zanlı'' olduğunu bildirdi.

Cinayetlere ilişkin genel bilgi veren Savcı Molins, Fidan Doğan'a 4, Sakine Cansız'a 3 ve Leyla Söylemez'e 3 mermi isabet ettiğini söyledi.

Molins, bir silah bulunduğunu ve silahın yarı otomatik 7,65 milimetre çapında olduğunu belirtti.
Trafik kameraları ve mağazalardaki güvenlik kameralarının tek tek incelendiğini anlatan Savcı Molins, Ömer Güney isimli zanlının Sakine Cansız ile cinayetin işlendiği Rue Lafayette 147 numaraya 11.29'da geldiğini ve 11.49'da ayrıldığını tespit ettiklerini söyledi.

Molins, Güney'in binaya ikinci kez 12.11'de geldiğini ve 12.56'da ayrıldığını açıkladı.
Savcı Molins, öldürülen kadınlara yapılan otopsi sonucunda cinayetlerin 12.43-13.21 civarında işlendiğinin belirlendiğini, bunun da Güney'in binaya ikinci gelişiyle çakıştığını duyurdu.
Molins, Ömer Güney'in cinayetten bir gün önce Sakine Cansız adına 1000 avro çektiğinin belirlendiğini, gözaltına alındığında yapılan üst aramasında, 930 avro bulunduğunu kaydetti.

16 Nisan 1982 Sivas Şarkışla doğumlu Ömer Güney'in iki yıldır PKK üyesi olduğunu açıklayan Savcı Molins, gözaltında Güney'in cinayetleri itiraf etmediğini ancak çelişkili ifade verdiği için şüpheleri üzerine çektiğini bildirdi.

Ayrıca Güney'e ait bir çantada barut izine rastlandığını bildiren Molins, tüm bu gerekçelerden dolayı Ömer Güney'i cinayetlerin baş şüphelisi olarak kabul edildiğini ifade etti.
Polisteki sorgusu tamamlanan Güney'in tutuklanma talebiyle mahkemeye gönderildiği de öğrenildi.

[Anthea]

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu said on Jan. 21 there was “key information” proving that the killings of three Kurdish women in Paris were an internal issue of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK).

“I can say that key information has been gathered. We can give further and more concrete information on this in the coming days,” Davutoğlu said in Ankara. “That was the initial direction all along,” he said when asked whether the killings of Sakine Cansız – one of the founders of the PKK – Fidan Doğan and Leyla Söylemez on Jan. 9 were the result of an internal execution within the organization. “But this is a judicial process, and it is not right to talk about it until reaching the ultimate verdict.”

Suspect’s name released

Meanwhile, French Prosecutor François Molins confirmed that the only detained suspect is 30-year-old Ömer Güney from the Central Anatolian province of Sivas. Güney has been a member of the PKK for the past two years and was the last person to be seen with Cansız on the security cameras.

Molins also said all three women were killed with one gun, adding that the reason for the murder had not yet been determined. Also, French police found gunshot residue on the suspect’s coat, while it was aslo revealed that the suspect attended a demonstration called “Freedom for Öcalan” in March 2012.

The suspect might also have some psychological disorders, sources said. French police had detained two suspects, aged 39 and 30, on Jan. 17 in connection with the killings, French daily Le Parisien reported Jan. 18. The second suspect was released yesterday.

There were also reports that one of the suspects had a 46-minute gap in his testimony.
There is a chance that assassinations similar to the one in Paris may take place in Germany, ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) deputy chair Mehmet Ali Şahin has said.

Şahin said such killings were aimed at sabotaging the peace process, Doğan news agency reported. “I’m afraid Germany may face similar incidents in the coming days,” he said, adding that the people were eager for the process to end with the PKK laying down its arms. Germany is the country with the largest Turkish population outside Turkey. “The problem must be solved,” Şahin said. “The terrorist organization and its leader understand that they will not gain ground in this way … 2012 was a bad year for them. They used to employ ‘hit and run’ tactics, but in 2012 they tried ‘hit and stay’ tactics, which failed. Through coordination, our soldiers, police and intelligence officers ruined their plans. The struggle against terrorism will continue for as long as terrorism exists. They [the PKK] are told: lay down arms.”

[Anthea]

ODD FACTS:

3 men were seen opening door - either they had this on film or they did not

2 men arrested - what was the connection between the 2 men

People could only get into the office if someone opened the door from inside

Nobody normally works there late at night

Anthea: If nobody remains in the offices at night then there is nobody inside to open the door for the first person the next day. That means there was a way into the office without being let in by somebody inside

Omer was the last person to be filmed with one of the ladies

Film proof that Omer was the killer (Turkish TV report)

Anthea: Omer denies the murders. Either they have a film of Omer just talking to one of the ladies OR they have him on film at the murder scene at the time of the murders.

Omer only joined the PKK 2 years ago

Anthea: They must be a lot more trusting in France than they are in England. It would take years of loyal service here before anyone ever got that close to one of the party leaders